Retired Marine: "Gun is Civilization"

This is a discussion on Retired Marine: "Gun is Civilization" within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The Gun is Civilization by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret), May 26, 2010 Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason ...

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Thread: Retired Marine: "Gun is Civilization"

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    Member Array cyberdogg's Avatar
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    Retired Marine: "Gun is Civilization"

    The Gun is Civilization

    by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret), May 26, 2010

    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, thatís it.

    In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

    When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

    The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

    There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that weíd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the muggerís potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiatĖit has no validity when most of a muggerís potential marks are armed.

    People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and thatís the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

    Then thereís the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones donít constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

    The gun is the only weapon thatís as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldnít work as well as a force equalizer if it wasnít both lethal and easily employable.

    When I carry a gun, I donít do so because I am looking for a fight, but because Iím looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I donít carry it because Iím afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesnít limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equationÖ and thatís why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

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    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Wow this is good wisdom! Now i have more intellectual ammo to use on antis!
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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    I wish our pro-2A politicians were all as eloquent as this. Even the stupidest of liberal can't deny the clear logic in that, lol.

    Edit: Zing!

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    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelvertigo View Post
    Even the stupidest of liberal can't deny the clear logic in that, lol.
    Never underestimate the power of denial where liberals are involved.
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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    Member Array nigelvertigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpwing View Post
    Never underestimate the power of denial where liberals are involved.
    Yeah, I know. *sigh* I know...

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Sums it up pretty well!
    Hiram25
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    VIP Member Array Brass63's Avatar
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    Great essay! Thanks for posting it.
    The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

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    Member Array Chiller2's Avatar
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    It is a good essay but it was not written by a US Marine it was written by Marko Kloos a writer who has a blog called the munchkin wrangler. This blog site the munchkin wrangler. Essay on his site why the gun is civilization. the munchkin wrangler.
    Ted Nugent used the same essay and attribution in his book and ended up having to pay the for the rights.(a small sum about $400 i think)
    The rights are free for non-commercial use as long as you use proper attribution.

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    Member Array BurgDog's Avatar
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    Since guns mean you must use reason get people to do things, removing guns allows you to use force when reason is impossible. Think of who gains by this plan.

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    Senior Member Array HK Dan's Avatar
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    Well, he ain't watched "Die less often". A knife is perty deadly, too.
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    Can't argue with logic like that.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    Definitely words of great wisdom!
    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!

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    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Well, I like most of it, but saying the gun is civilization is saying that you cannot function without a gun, sorry, I don't buy that entirely. Like this saying here. Please bare with me for just a moment.

    "When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force."

    I like this if you think only on this level. I can deal on other levels, cut off your food supply and your gun is worthless, I don't have to reason with you, I don't have to use force against you, I have in essense defeated you by using my brain against your weapon. You might say that is using reason, maybe so, not in my mind it's not, I'm using another type of force, the force of my brain to defeat your weapon.

    I can't see using this as an analogy of how civilization should be looked at. Don't get me wrong here, I own plenty of guns, but they are not my civilization, they are a part of my survival plans. There is a difference.

    As always, this is just my view.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

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    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    Well, I like most of it, but saying the gun is civilization is saying that you cannot function without a gun, sorry, I don't buy that entirely. Like this saying here. Please bare with me for just a moment.

    "When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force."

    I like this if you think only on this level. I can deal on other levels, cut off your food supply and your gun is worthless, I don't have to reason with you, I don't have to use force against you, I have in essense defeated you by using my brain against your weapon. You might say that is using reason, maybe so, not in my mind it's not, I'm using another type of force, the force of my brain to defeat your weapon.

    I can't see using this as an analogy of how civilization should be looked at. Don't get me wrong here, I own plenty of guns, but they are not my civilization, they are a part of my survival plans. There is a difference.

    As always, this is just my view.
    I thought a gun was always a great way to obtain a food supply
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    Get the U.S. out of the U.N.

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    Member Array Chiller2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    Well, I like most of it, but saying the gun is civilization is saying that you cannot function without a gun, sorry, I don't buy that entirely. Like this saying here. Please bare with me for just a moment.

    "When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force."

    I like this if you think only on this level. I can deal on other levels, cut off your food supply and your gun is worthless, I don't have to reason with you, I don't have to use force against you, I have in essense defeated you by using my brain against your weapon. You might say that is using reason, maybe so, not in my mind it's not, I'm using another type of force, the force of my brain to defeat your weapon.

    I can't see using this as an analogy of how civilization should be looked at. Don't get me wrong here, I own plenty of guns, but they are not my civilization, they are a part of my survival plans. There is a difference.

    As always, this is just my view.
    You are using force, and not your brain to stop my food supply. Stopping it from coming to me or me going to it takes force on your part.

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