At last the truth -- It's the Drugs...

This is a discussion on At last the truth -- It's the Drugs... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by azchevy How would you regulate marijuana which can be grown in peoples back yards and homes and resold, undercutting taxes? It would ...

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Thread: At last the truth -- It's the Drugs...

  1. #31
    New Member Array MmmmToasted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    How would you regulate marijuana which can be grown in peoples back yards and homes and resold, undercutting taxes? It would still be a black market as long as drug dealers can sell it cheaper than it is taxed. That goes for all drugs.
    I'm sure gald I can't get in trouble for growing my own vegatables. Then when I can't get fresh carrots, I buy them at the black market, Cub Foods.

    Sorry for making fun, but it seems to me...

    If you make it legal for people to buy and grow marijuana for medicinal, recreational and other productive uses, (ie, paper), they can get it on an open market at a price that won't be near as much. The crime lords won't have a monopoly or anything close to their current profit. They can't whack all the competition. (I suppose they would just suppliment their income another way. Meth, heroin, cocaine, re-sell chinese drywall?)

    BTW, Marijuana is so easy to get now, legalizing it would not increase the amount of recreational and self medicating users significantly in the long run.

    Who's against legalizing it? Anyone that is at risk to losing money from it.

    And the reason I'm on the site today, is I found this little ditty.
    Medical marijuana user can have concealed handgun permit, court rules | DailyTidings.com

    Medical marijuana user can have concealed handgun permit, court rules

    June 16, 2010 The Oregon Court of Appeals ruled against Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters today in a case in which he denied a concealed handgun permit to a medical marijuana user.

    The ruling upholds an earlier decision by Jackson County Circuit Court Judge Mark Schiveley, who ordered Winters to grant renewal of Cynthia Willis' permit in 2008.

    In its ruling, the Court of Appeals found that Willis complied with state law in her application, and found no credible legal argument from Winters as to why he denied the permit.

    "In sum, we are not persuaded that the Sheriff is being forced to violate — or even potentially violate — any federal law by issuing a concealed handgun license pursuant to Oregon's concealed handgun licensing statutes," the court ruled.

    — Damian Mann
    Rules of Engagement:
    Ability, Opportunity, Jepardy, plus Preclusion

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Since America is such a huge user of illegal drugs from Mexico, I wonder what would happen if we went Sharia overnight? Islamic law takes a much dimmer view of drugs than the most conservative US politician. How do they stop it over there?
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  4. #33
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    We don't need to make drugs legal we need to solve the problem permanently...
    I have said it before and I will say it again -- the problem with drugs will never go away until the reasons people take drugs go away. And that will never happen. We need to find an acceptable compromise. Legality is just part of that.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Our nation no longer has the will to stand for that which is righteous, beneficial, and moral.
    But no one person, one family, one state, one religion, or one political party gets to decide exactly what is righteous, beneficial, and moral.

    Simplistic answers don't help anyone.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Since America is such a huge user of illegal drugs from Mexico, I wonder what would happen if we went Sharia overnight? Islamic law takes a much dimmer view of drugs than the most conservative US politician. How do they stop it over there?
    Beheading, stoning, massive control over every part of one's life.

    Go read "Infidel" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, if you want to know what that kind of life is like.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilraen View Post
    I have said it before and I will say it again -- the problem with drugs will never go away until the reasons people take drugs go away. And that will never happen. We need to find an acceptable compromise. Legality is just part of that.
    You know, what you're posting sounds logical. The problem with your argument is that I've been to countries without the huge drug problems we have here. IMO it's because the punishment for getting caught is steep enough to deter most folks. I'm pretty sure that if we ratcheted up the penalties and PUT A FEW MORE BGs IN THE GROUND some of our problems would go away right now. In just a short while (a decade or so) 80 to 90% of the problem would go away.

    The real problem is our catch and release legal system. When crime goes unpunished there is no reason for the BGs and users to quit.
    Mark Twain:
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    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post
    The solution is really simple, legalize drugs and tax them, both in the United States and Mexico. It worked with alcohol, and it will work with drugs, all the drug dealers would be out of business overnight.
    I don't believe what I just read with the above comment. Just call be a Archie Bunker type I guess
    Oh yeah, give gasoline to the fire. If drugs ( weed, cocain, heroin etc etc etc) were legalized, can you ever imagine what this Country would be like? Bad enough it's it the shape it is right now. Sorry to say, but I think you've been smokin dope a little too long. You sure you don't lie when you fill out a 4473?
    Penalty for Drug dealing, just like in China, they kneel you down, throw the charges in front of you, and put a round thru the back of your head. end of story.
    On top of it, with our "Southern neighbors' build a 100 ft steel wall, 6 ft wide, 100 ft deep, man it with armed guards, minefields on the outer perimeter of the wall (Southern side) and shoot anybody who attempts to come across (or under) Sound terrible? yes it is, BUT it SURE WOULD GET THE POINT ACROSS THAT WE DON'T WANT THEM ( the drug dealers or others) HERE.
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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, give gasoline to the fire. If drugs ( weed, cocain, heroin etc etc etc) were legalized, can you ever imagine what this Country would be like?
    Probably about the same as it is now, except that our taxes would be lower because we wouldn't have so many people locked up in prison.

    One thing that the harshers tend to forget is that incarcerating people is expensive and you and I pay for that. When it comes to criminals who rob, rape, and kill, I'm willing to pay that cost. Happily.

    But I do not want my tax dollars going to waste putting behind bars some college kid who got high and got caught. That is a huge waste of resources and a needless destruction of a human being.

    True story: Pal of mine got busted for some drug thing (never found out exactly what) but when he went in, he was a very nice guy and someone you'd be pleased to know. When he got out a few years later, he was a totally changed person. Acted hinky - like a felon. The prison experience completely ruined him.

    So we let our citizens take powerful prescription drugs, take alcohol, get their heads all buzzed up 8 ways to Sunday, but if they take the wrong one we toss 'em in a violent kill-or-be-killed rat cage for a few years and expect them to come out model citizens? ****** - that's a recipe for making a criminal.
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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilraen View Post
    But no one person, one family, one state, one religion, or one political party gets to decide exactly what is righteous, beneficial, and moral.

    Simplistic answers don't help anyone.


    And therein lies the problem. It is simple, but true morality is less popular than it once was. Few in our generation recognize right and wrong. There really is such a thing as morality. It is as white is to black. People don't approve of that contrast though. There is so much more freedom in claiming that some "gray area" covers human conduct.

    This "gray area" is so convenient to most folks though so it needs to be large and all encompassing. One can hide behind the gray area,doing as he pleases and not standing for anything... except tolerance. Gotta have tolerance. All that matters these days is tolerance. Tolerance for absolutely everything except intolerance and that isn't to be tolerated. Any society that values tolerance above everything else is doomed.

    Whether it is illicit drugs or any other crime, we will have just as much of it as we are willing to tolerate and we are obviously willing to tolerate quite a lot.

    We are currently free to reap the rewards derived from low expectations of our fellow man because of so much tolerance as society decays around us.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  11. #40
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLASS3NH View Post
    I don't believe what I just read with the above comment. Just call be a Archie Bunker type I guess
    Oh yeah, give gasoline to the fire. If drugs ( weed, cocain, heroin etc etc etc) were legalized, can you ever imagine what this Country would be like? Bad enough it's it the shape it is right now. Sorry to say, but I think you've been smokin dope a little too long. You sure you don't lie when you fill out a 4473?
    Penalty for Drug dealing, just like in China, they kneel you down, throw the charges in front of you, and put a round thru the back of your head. end of story.
    On top of it, with our "Southern neighbors' build a 100 ft steel wall, 6 ft wide, 100 ft deep, man it with armed guards, minefields on the outer perimeter of the wall (Southern side) and shoot anybody who attempts to come across (or under) Sound terrible? yes it is, BUT it SURE WOULD GET THE POINT ACROSS THAT WE DON'T WANT THEM ( the drug dealers or others) HERE.
    I believe that regardless of the laws drug use has hovered around the 4-6 percent mark for generations now.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

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  12. #41
    Senior Member Array CCWFlaRuger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post
    The solution is really simple, legalize drugs and tax them, both in the United States and Mexico. It worked with alcohol, and it will work with drugs, all the drug dealers would be out of business overnight.
    I agree to an extent. Some drugs are harmless... Marijuana being at the top of that list, however, the majority of hard drugs are sooo destructive to the body, the mind, and those around the user that, in good concience, they cannot be made legal and readily availalbe.

    That being said, alcohol is completely legal and is quite possibly one of the most dangerous drugs available (possibly becuase of it's availability) so, what can we do? We have tried prohibition, failed, the war on drugs? Only escalates. I truely believe that if it were legal, Marijuana could possibly stem the desire for the more illicit substances. IMHO, if users didn't have to worry about the consequence of Pot, then they wouldn't bother with the risk of getting a better buzz. The mentality that "If i'm going down anyhow, I might as well enjoy it" wouldn't be as prevalent.

    It has been quite a few years since I have "partaken" in that counter culture, however, as I recall, it was pretty enjoyable at the time. If it was legal, well... "Who could ask for anything more?"
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  13. #42
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    Marijuana is probably a stepping-stone drug. No intoxicants are harmless. All drugs should be legal because governnment doesn't have a right to legislate what an individual consumes. And libertarians don't believe in taxes.

    No one can predict what would happen if drugs were legal anymore than people were able to predict what would happen if barriers to concealed carry became as low as they are today.

    Sharia law and China? Ever heard of gun control? The hop-head nazis got the best drugs in the good old days.

    Back on topic, the fact that the cartels are targeting rehab clinics speaks volumes about drug war tactics as practiced by the outlaws. They want to take away the best hope of overcoming addiction to keep their customer base. There is a way out of the drug war. But it is not outlawing drugs. It is factoring out the criminal element and rehabilitation of individuals seeking help.

    And (back off topic) while medical may not be a cause to deny a handgun carry permit, companies should still be able to bar employment to those who test positive above a reasonable level for drugs.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  14. #43
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    It does seem like a very stubborn position for the government to house such a huge prison population at enormous cost in a program every bit as effectual as Prohibition. In a free country; that's the worst of it. I don't see why the government is telling people what they can or can't ingest.

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    And therein lies the problem. It is simple, but true morality is less popular than it once was. Few in our generation recognize right and wrong. There really is such a thing as morality. It is as white is to black. People don't approve of that contrast though. There is so much more freedom in claiming that some "gray area" covers human conduct.

    This "gray area" is so convenient to most folks though so it needs to be large and all encompassing. One can hide behind the gray area,doing as he pleases and not standing for anything... except tolerance. Gotta have tolerance. All that matters these days is tolerance. Tolerance for absolutely everything except intolerance and that isn't to be tolerated. Any society that values tolerance above everything else is doomed.

    Whether it is illicit drugs or any other crime, we will have just as much of it as we are willing to tolerate and we are obviously willing to tolerate quite a lot.

    We are currently free to reap the rewards derived from low expectations of our fellow man because of so much tolerance as society decays around us.
    Fantastic post! +100.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  16. #45
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    How does ingesting mind altering substances contribute to our society? Where is the benefit here?
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

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