At last the truth -- It's the Drugs...

This is a discussion on At last the truth -- It's the Drugs... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; not the availability of guns here in the US. washingtonpost.com [with video] Mexico's deadly drug violence claims hundreds of lives in past 5 days By ...

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Thread: At last the truth -- It's the Drugs...

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    At last the truth -- It's the Drugs...

    not the availability of guns here in the US.

    washingtonpost.com

    [with video]

    Mexico's deadly drug violence claims hundreds of lives in past 5 days

    By William Booth
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Wednesday, June 16, 2010

    MEXICO CITY -- An explosion of drug violence in Mexico has killed hundreds of people in the past five days and prompted the country's president to issue a 5,000-word manifesto warning that the fight against organized crime must continue "or we will always live in fear."

    As the latest spasm of killing has spread across the country, cartel assassins, local thugs and federal troops have died in running gun battles, highway ambushes and prison melees. On Tuesday, shooting broke out in the popular tourist town of Taxco, south of the Mexican capital. Mexican army troops, acting on a tip, raided a house and a firefight ensued, leaving 14 gunmen dead.

    The string of grisly attacks since Thursday has included the execution-style killing of 19 drug addicts in a rehabilitation clinic and several assaults targeting police, including an ambush this week that killed 12 federal officers.

    In an editorial printed in newspapers nationwide Monday, President Felipe Calderón defended his drug war as vital to the country's security. More than 23,000 people have died in drug-related violence since December 2006, when Calderón first sent the Mexican military into the streets, according to a government report.

    The president directly blamed the United States.

    "The origin of our violence problem begins with the fact that Mexico is located next to the country that has the highest levels of drug consumption in the world," Calderón wrote. "It is as if our neighbor were the biggest drug addict in the world."

    The cartels, he said, have grown rich and bold -- fed with billions of dollars from the United States. Experts estimate that $10 billion to $25 billion in drug profits flow to Mexico each year from the north. About 90 percent of the cocaine consumed in the United States passes through Mexico, which also smuggles at least half of the marijuana and methamphetamine sold in U.S. cities. Meanwhile, many of the weapons the cartels use, including grenades and military-style assault rifles, are smuggled into Mexico from the United States.

    Calderón told his country that Mexico would be in a much worse state if his administration had not taken on the criminal gangs. It is a battle that is supported by the Obama administration and Congress, which has dedicated $1.3 billion in aid to train police, reform the courts, and supply drug-sniffing dogs, armored cars, night-vision goggles and Black Hawk military helicopters.

    Several hundred Mexicans have been killed in confrontations in the past week in some of the worst violence since the U.S.-backed drug war began.

    The Mexican newspapers that keep running tallies of drug-related violence reported last week that a record was set when 85 people died in a 24-hour period, topping the previous record from November 2008, when 58 were killed over a similar period.

    But the pace of killing quickened. On Monday, El Universal newspaper reported that 96 people in seven states died, and another record was set.

    The attacks began Thursday when two dozen gunmen stormed into the Faith and Life drug rehabilitation center in the northern state of Chihuahua, forced the patients onto the floor or against the wall and killed 19 of them. The dead ranged in age from 16 to 63.

    One of the teenagers managed to make a cellphone call to his home, shouting: -- "Mommy, they've come to kill us!"

    Violence against addicts at rehab centers, where patients are often low-level workers in the drug trade, is increasingly common in Mexico.

    Calderón later issued a statement from Johannesburg, where he was attending the opening of the World Cup, decrying "the barbaric acts."

    On Monday, gunmen killed 15 federal police officers in separate attacks in two states known for heavy narcotics trafficking. In the mountainous state of Michoacan, west of Mexico City, mafia assassins used burning buses to block a major highway and ambush a convoy of police returning to the capital, killing 12 officers and wounding at least eight others.

    Also Monday, 29 prisoners from rival gangs attacked one another with pistols, an assault rifle and knives in the Mazatlan jail in the western state of Sinaloa, home to Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán. The billionaire cartel boss, whom Forbes magazine has named one of the richest men in Mexico, is among the most wanted fugitives there and in the United States.

    Prison officials said that 18 inmates were killed in initial assaults and that 11 others died of stab wounds and beatings when fighting spread to other cell blocks.

    In Ciudad Juarez, across the border from El Paso, seven or eight people are killed in drug-related violence every day, often garnering only a few paragraphs in the local newspapers. Almost 1,200 people have died in Juarez this year.
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    Again, he needs to clean up his own backyard befoer telling us how to clean up ours.
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    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    The solution is really simple, legalize drugs and tax them, both in the United States and Mexico. It worked with alcohol, and it will work with drugs, all the drug dealers would be out of business overnight.
    -Landric

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    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post
    The solution is really simple, legalize drugs and tax them, both in the United States and Mexico. It worked with alcohol, and it will work with drugs, all the drug dealers would be out of business overnight.
    I'm starting to agree with that. It seems to be working in some other places.
    'War on drugs' behind endless misery - CNN.com
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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post
    The solution is really simple, legalize drugs and tax them, both in the United States and Mexico. It worked with alcohol, and it will work with drugs, all the drug dealers would be out of business overnight.
    I can see it now - "Monster Energy Drink, Now with a 8 ball of blow for that Xtra boost!"
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post
    The solution is really simple, legalize drugs and tax them, both in the United States and Mexico. It worked with alcohol, and it will work with drugs, all the drug dealers would be out of business overnight.
    How would you regulate marijuana which can be grown in peoples back yards and homes and resold, undercutting taxes? It would still be a black market as long as drug dealers can sell it cheaper than it is taxed. That goes for all drugs.

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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    How would you regulate marijuana which can be grown in peoples back yards and homes and resold, undercutting taxes? It would still be a black market as long as drug dealers can sell it cheaper than it is taxed. That goes for all drugs.
    Ya know, I used to think that but I am not so sure anymore. I agree that there would always be some black market but after the whole "Mr. Smiley" phenomenon I'm not sure price is as much of a motivator. I work for a college and the buzz around here is that people will buy and smoke smiley because it's legal (for the moment) even though it 4 times the price.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    Member Array bomber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    I can see it now - "Monster Energy Drink, Now with a 8 ball of blow for that Xtra boost!"
    it used to be a reality, several drinks were marketed and sold with cocaine, including coca-cola.

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    The problem that I see with legalization is the lack of resolve to enforce regulation of drugs and users.

    If we do not really have the stomach to strictly enforce present drug laws (and we don't) what makes us think that legalization and collecting some sort of tax will work. Do we have the resolve to enforce tax laws and supply regulations against those who want to provide cheaper illegal drugs for those who want to avoid paying for the higher taxed product?

    Are we going to strictly enforce DUI laws and other laws commonly broken by drug users? We currently are not harsh enough with lawbreakers who drive while under the influence of alcohol. How are we going to deal with the inevitable hordes of those who would now be using legally but would also irresponsibly choose to drive, beat their wives and children, steal, or just raise general mayhem?

    Why give our collective assent for a segment of our society to ""turn on, tune in, drop out?" We don't need to promote idleness, laziness, and sloth. Drug users aren't upstanding citizens. We have a crying need for more upstanding citizens in our country. Why promote more wretched lay-abouts and their evil mind set?

    The lawless understand the fear of retribution. They frequently manipulate it to get their way. It is fear of retribution that causes a victim of robbery to hand over the loot when threatened. The problem is that fear of retribution is currently considered "cruel and unusual punishment" by our present broken justice system.

    Giving the cover of legality to something that is of no benefit and is obviously detrimental to a civilized society is a pretty far slide down "the slippery slope."

    We will have just as much crime as our society is willing to tolerate. We are willing to tolerate quite a lot. Our nation no longer has the will to stand for that which is righteous, beneficial, and moral.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

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    I know I am going to get a PM about this but I am seeing red right now. I read in a post above that we gave Mexico 1.3 Billion to help them clean the country up. What the hell is wrong with these jerks in the white house. Why cant we just stand on the border and shoot anything that comes on our side. We on DC talk about why we carry and how we want to protect our familys but these idiots in the white house have no feelings toward us or any one else. Wow that realy pisses me off.
    Last edited by HotGuns; June 16th, 2010 at 06:43 PM. Reason: bad language
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    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    How would you regulate marijuana which can be grown in peoples back yards and homes and resold, undercutting taxes? It would still be a black market as long as drug dealers can sell it cheaper than it is taxed. That goes for all drugs.
    Ever heard of moonshine? There's a very small black market in alcohol to this day. None of the massive turf wars and wide spread violent crime associated with the prohibition of "drugs", though.

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    Member Array Spander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    How would you regulate marijuana which can be grown in peoples back yards and homes and resold, undercutting taxes? It would still be a black market as long as drug dealers can sell it cheaper than it is taxed. That goes for all drugs.
    We're lazy. We can grow our own veggies but most people buy them. I'm sure people could grow tobacco but it's easier to just run to the store to get a pack of smokes. I agree there would still be a black market for marijuana just like there is a black market for tax-free cigarettes, but it would be reduced a lot just because the common guy is not going to mess with the blackmarket if he can run to the store to buy a pack of marijuana cigs.... even if it is a dollar or two tax.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    The problem that I see with legalization is the lack of resolve to enforce regulation of drugs and users.

    If we do not really have the stomach to strictly enforce present drug laws (and we don't) what makes us think that legalization and collecting some sort of tax will work. Do we have the resolve to enforce tax laws and supply regulations against those who want to provide cheaper illegal drugs for those who want to avoid paying for the higher taxed product?

    Are we going to strictly enforce DUI laws and other laws commonly broken by drug users? We currently are not harsh enough with lawbreakers who drive while under the influence of alcohol. How are we going to deal with the inevitable hordes of those who would now be using legally but would also irresponsibly choose to drive, beat their wives and children, steal, or just raise general mayhem?

    Why give our collective assent for a segment of our society to ""turn on, tune in, drop out?" We don't need to promote idleness, laziness, and sloth. Drug users aren't upstanding citizens. We have a crying need for more upstanding citizens in our country. Why promote more wretched lay-abouts and their evil mind set?

    The lawless understand the fear of retribution. They frequently manipulate it to get their way. It is fear of retribution that causes a victim of robbery to hand over the loot when threatened. The problem is that fear of retribution is currently considered "cruel and unusual punishment" by our present broken justice system.

    Giving the cover of legality to something that is of no benefit and is obviously detrimental to a civilized society is a pretty far slide down "the slippery slope."

    We will have just as much crime as our society is willing to tolerate. We are willing to tolerate quite a lot. Our nation no longer has the will to stand for that which is righteous, beneficial, and moral.

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    Member Array i10casual's Avatar
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    Want to know the truth? The Mexican government is NOT fighting all these drug cartels. They have decided to BACK the largest one and help them crush all the smaller ones. The govt is using the police and the military to accomplish this. It is their last ditch effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    The problem that I see with legalization is the lack of resolve to enforce regulation of drugs and users.

    If we do not really have the stomach to strictly enforce present drug laws (and we don't) what makes us think that legalization and collecting some sort of tax will work. Do we have the resolve to enforce tax laws and supply regulations against those who want to provide cheaper illegal drugs for those who want to avoid paying for the higher taxed product?

    Are we going to strictly enforce DUI laws and other laws commonly broken by drug users? We currently are not harsh enough with lawbreakers who drive while under the influence of alcohol. How are we going to deal with the inevitable hordes of those who would now be using legally but would also irresponsibly choose to drive, beat their wives and children, steal, or just raise general mayhem?

    Why give our collective assent for a segment of our society to ""turn on, tune in, drop out?" We don't need to promote idleness, laziness, and sloth. Drug users aren't upstanding citizens. We have a crying need for more upstanding citizens in our country. Why promote more wretched lay-abouts and their evil mind set?

    The lawless understand the fear of retribution. They frequently manipulate it to get their way. It is fear of retribution that causes a victim of robbery to hand over the loot when threatened. The problem is that fear of retribution is currently considered "cruel and unusual punishment" by our present broken justice system.

    Giving the cover of legality to something that is of no benefit and is obviously detrimental to a civilized society is a pretty far slide down "the slippery slope."

    We will have just as much crime as our society is willing to tolerate. We are willing to tolerate quite a lot. Our nation no longer has the will to stand for that which is righteous, beneficial, and moral.
    Wow! Well said. I hate quoting a song but TK said it best. We don't need to make drugs legal we need to solve the problem permanently...

    "We got too many gangsters doing dirty deeds
    We've got too much corruption, too much crime in the streets
    It's time the long arm of the law put a few more in the ground
    Send 'em all to their maker and he'll settle 'em down
    "
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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