Guns in churches in Louisiana / Oh the horror!

Guns in churches in Louisiana / Oh the horror!

This is a discussion on Guns in churches in Louisiana / Oh the horror! within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; FOXNews.com - Gun Control Advocates Decry Louisiana's New Law Allowing Churchgoers to Pack Heat Gun Control Advocates Decry Louisiana's New Law Allowing Churchgoers to Pack ...

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Thread: Guns in churches in Louisiana / Oh the horror!

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Guns in churches in Louisiana / Oh the horror!

    FOXNews.com - Gun Control Advocates Decry Louisiana's New Law Allowing Churchgoers to Pack Heat


    Gun Control Advocates Decry Louisiana's New Law Allowing Churchgoers to Pack Heat

    Gun control supporters are up in arms over Louisiana's new law allowing churchgoers to pack heat along with their Bibles.


    Gun control supporters are up in arms over Louisiana's new law allowing churchgoers to pack heat along with their Bibles.

    Gov. Bobby Jindal gave his blessing this week to churches, synagogues and mosques to allow concealed handguns on their premises, overturning a state ban.

    "The governor's position on the Second Amendment is not new," Jindal spokesman Kyle Plotkin said in a written statement to FoxNews.com. "He sides with the constitutional rights of law-abiding gun owners."

    Supporters of the measure say it can be a deterrent against criminal activity in church and will give an option to ministers and pastors to incorporate concealed handguns into their security plans.

    Opponents argue it's inappropriate to have concealed handguns in church.

    Places of worship that invite concealed guns will have to inform their members of the decision and anyone wishing to carry one will have to take an extra eight hours of tactical training each year a requirement that doesn't mollify gun opponents.

    "The question Louisiana residents need to be asking themselves is: Is someone who takes a single eight-hour class fit to defend themselves should a crisis situation arise in the church?," said Ladd Everitt, a spokesman for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. "We would say no."

    Everitt said violent crimes should be handled by police officers, who have extensive training with firearms. At a minimum, he added, the law should demand more extensive requirements of churchgoers.

    "There are enough people with that level of training, that level of accountability," he said. "We are seeing the NRA moving us to vigilante-type justice with little accountability."

    Jindal signed the bill by Republican Rep. Henry Burns on Tuesday. The new law, which takes effect August 15, does not apply to churches on school property.

    Louisiana becomes one of the few states allowing concealed guns in places of worship, gun control advocates said. Similar legislation failed in Kansas, Mississippi and Ohio, according to the Legal Community Against Violence, a public interest law center based in San Francisco.

    Earlier this year, Georgia passed a law that allows churchgoers to carry concealed weapons in the parking lots of churches.

    "Legal Community Against Violence believes that loaded firearms have no place in a house of worship," Laura Cutilletta, a senior staff attorney with the group said in a written statement to FoxNews.com. "Important research confirms the common sense conclusion that more guns create more opportunity for injury and death. Houses of worship should be places where families and others can worship in peace without worry that their safety will be jeopardized by the accidental, or intentional, use of a gun."

    Louisiana Rep. Mickey James Guillory, who voted against the measure under pressure from his constituents when it came before his criminal justice panel, said he now supports the law because places of worship ultimately choose.

    "It doesn't give carte blanche to people to bring a gun to church," he told FoxNews.com. "If it's regulated in that fashion, where the pastor or the governing board of the church knows who the assigned people are, that's ok."

    He added that churchgoers who are not satisfied with that restriction "can go to another church."

    "If that's how they feel, that's why we have so many denominations," he said. "That's why you have choice of religion."

    The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said it isn't taking a position on Louisiana's gun law because it doesn't force churches to allow guns.

    ME: Now that would be a heck of a law!

    "The main thing is churches have been doing the right thing in banning guns," said Daniel Vice, a senior attorney with the organization. "When the Bible says blessed are the peacemakers, it's not referring to the Colt .45."

    Vice noted that Louisiana has the highest rate of death by gunfire in the country, nearly double the national rate. The state's gun death rate is 19.87 per 100,000, according to an analysis by the Violence Policy Center of 2006 data from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. The national gun death rate is 10 per 100,000.

    "Anytime you allow guns into public places, it increases the risk of shootings," Vice said. "That's why we think churches have done the right thing" by banning them.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!


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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Heh...even if this quote were true... I don't see what the problem is, unless of course the spokesman is admitting he himself is a criminal. Of course i would expect him to be worried then...

    "We are seeing the NRA moving us to vigilante-type justice with little accountability."
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Member Array TangoMonkey's Avatar
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    Wow.

    Ok, where do I start? I won’t touch the "more guns means more violence", as I believe everyone here knows that is @#$%.

    If the law allows churches to decide whether or not to allow members to carry, why do the anti-gunners care. Why is it their decision to say if the churches should allow or not?

    I don’t really see how it is vigilante justice to defend yourself from an armed attacker. We have seen armed attackers open fire in churches in the past. Sometimes they are members, other times not. A BG is not going to care what the law says anyway.

    I will stop here. There is way too much misinformation from the anti-gunners to cover it all. Plus I am just getting angry.
    "When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the
    scabbard." -General Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson

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    Only an anti beleives that target rich environments are better for everyone...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    New Member Array Charlie Xray's Avatar
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    The new Louisiana law is a poor one but better than what they had before. It does not apply to any CHP holder in the congregation; only to the church security team. The church leadership must decide to allow the security team members to carry of not. If they decide to allow carry they must announce same to the congregation or publish it in the church bulletin. Team members must be licensed to carry concealed and take an additional 8 hour "tactical" course, which IMO is not sufficient.

    The preferred method is for the law to apply to all CHP holders and if any announcing is required, it is a "no guns allowed" post at the door by churches that refuse it. No sign, then carry is permitted.

    I am the chairman of our small Bible church's security committee. Two years ago we elected to investigate the subject and did not like what we learned. I instigated that.

    For example: from 1999 - 2009 there were about 297 incidents of various forms of violence against churches or members on church property. During the first quarter of 2010 there were 20. That is a significant rate increase!

    We recruited members to act as "sheepdogs" in the congregation and have one member in the church office (different building) monitoring cameras in the church building and outside during services. They communicate by radio. You would be surprised what goes on outside your church while you are inside. So far none has led to violence or property damage.

    And for those who question Christians being armed, there is ample Scripture to support it.

    The truth is the situation for places of worship is getting more and more dangerous. The Jews learned that lesson long ago.

    CX

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    "We" got two other laws passed also, and a lot of folks worked hard for this at the Capitol, I did a small part with timely emails to the appropriate legislators.

    1. CC in La State parks, wildlife management areas, etc
    2. CC permit holders are now exempt from the 1000' no firearm zone around school zones. Not on school campus, but the outlying areas.


    Regarding the church carry. First of all I am for church carry, as you all know, it's a victim-rich area. I don't know if the State (or any State) should actually be involved in this decision. I haven't read the final version of this church carry bill, but I don't think it's that great, though it might be better than nothing.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Member Array Ice Man's Avatar
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    We have been carrying in churches here for a long time, no troubles.

    We cant carry in a school, courthouse, or the post office, everything else is game. No problems so far...

    The sheep think that if they make rules, the wolves will follow them. We know better.
    My GLOCK goes BANG every time!

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    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    It's not an issue in plenty of other states that allowed concealed or open carry in church. I don't like an "additional 8 hours" of training above and beyond the CCP, unless that is church security team training and optional.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Many churches will not take on the added responsibility of an armed security team sponsored by the church. If they just abide by the cc laws in their State and do not prohibit cc among the members they do not face all of the legal issues involved with their own armed security team. The cc'er would be responsible for any actions he takes on his own.
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    Good move for LA......next, they shouldn't have to ask anyone to CC.
    Anyone with a permit in FL can church carry without anyone's permission...and as it should be.
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    VIP Member Array artz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Man View Post
    We have been carrying in churches here for a long time, no troubles.
    thats the way it should be. No need to have a Luby's restaurant shooting, but in a church.
    " Refuse to be a victim, make sure there is a round chambered ! "

    Just call me a pessimistic optimist !

    U.S. Navy vet 1981-1992

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    Member Array jfrey's Avatar
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    You can carry in church in Texas, right next door to Louisiana. Unless the church posts the 30.06 sign, you have no problem. I have carried on several occassions, not because I was afraid of what would go on in church but because I was going other places after church and I felt it was safer to have my pistol on me than left unattended in my truck in a church parking lot. There have been numerous people shot while at church in Texas and the whole idea isn't so far fetched in the first place. There are no sacred places to criminals.

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    Member Array JBozeman's Avatar
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    Something going on Lousiana. Applause for Gov. Jindal!
    Boze
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    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    "The question Louisiana residents need to be asking themselves is: Is someone who takes a single eight-hour class fit to defend themselves should a crisis situation arise in the church?," said Ladd Everitt, a spokesman for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. "We would say no."

    Wow, seriously? So how much training do I need for you to allow me to defend myself?

    We are seeing the NRA moving us to vigilante-type justice with little accountability."


    Vigilatniism happens after the fact, self defense happens at the time of the attack. That's kind of an important distinction!



    "Legal Community Against Violence believes that loaded firearms have no place in a house of worship," Laura Cutilletta, a senior staff attorney with the group said in a written statement to FoxNews.com. "Important research confirms the common sense conclusion that more guns create more opportunity for injury and death. Houses of worship should be places where families and others can worship in peace without worry that their safety will be jeopardized by the accidental, or intentional, use of a gun."

    Uhm, yeah. I guess the criminals did not get that memo. The one where they actually leave the helpless unarmed folks alone where they know they can't be armed.


    "The main thing is churches have been doing the right thing in banning guns," said Daniel Vice, a senior attorney with the organization. "When the Bible says blessed are the peacemakers, it's not referring to the Colt .45."

    Way to jerk 4 words out of the Bible to make the wrong conclusion. Interesting thought process there.


    "Anytime you allow guns into public places, it increases the risk of shootings," Vice said. "That's why we think churches have done the right thing" by banning them.

    Blood in the streets, run, blood in the streets. OK, enough already. We all know that is wrong.
    My comments in bold. FWIW, I carry every Sunday. I don't have to ask permission or tell anyone. It's a non issue here as well.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Never been any problems here with conceal carry in churches. The only problem in a church was when a BG went into one and shot an abortion doctor.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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