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perplexing & then unsafe experience at range

2K views 31 replies 27 participants last post by  Deanimator 
#1 ·
This is a long story. Happened over a month ago, but I've been perplexed/troubled by it since. This range offers a variety of classes I'd like to take, but based upon this weird day, I'm really put off by the entire business. I felt there was a real breakdown in professionalism, safety, common sense, business sense and customer care.

One day as I was checking in to the Range, a group of four young ladies was also checking in. They were loosely chaperoned by the eldest, who could have been early to late 20s, the other 3 girls were young teens.

There was one employee working the front: I could hear 2 in the back. The 2 in back never came to the front, despite the fact that the counter was busy and there was a line. I waited to check in with others, while the counter employee dealt with the young group.

I couldn't help overhear parts of their conversation. The girls checking in had little experience shooting, some may have never fired a weapon. The eldest chaperon admitted she didn't remember what a 'magazine' was (!). Nearly all of them were renting pistols that day, and there was another conversation where it became clear that some didn't know about various calibers.

This slowed the counter employee down. They realized that these girls needed extra instruction and said--"I'm going to go over some basic safety protocol for you guys and do a review of the pistols--but first let me check in these other customers while you're filling out your paperwork."

At that point I got checked in and left to shoot--but as I passed the girls, 2 of the three were chatting on cellphones, not paying attention to forms. Throughout the conversation they had with the employee--phones had been going off with the latest popular songs--there was just a lot of chatter and lack of attention, just acting excited and silly.

Shortly afterward, all four girls trooped into the range and began rapid firing at targets. They were either all sharing one lane or two--but for the 30 min I was there--it was constant rapid fire, chatting, phones ringing. Girls were in and out of the range the entire time to talk on the phone, get sodas, etc. I've never been at any range where the door was opened and closed so much.

I left to cash out. There was a LONG wait. The same solo employee was selling a pistol to an older fellow--and once again, though there were 4 of us waiting to check in or out, neither of the 2 guys in the back came to the front. Meanwhile the girls shooting began to wind down and get ready to check out too.

As I waited I saw that the range had a Px4 for rent, as well as for sale. When it was my time to cash out, I asked if I could rent the pistol? I also said I'd have to buy a block of 9mm ammo from the shop and another target--since I was out. I mentioned I'd been wanting to try out the Beretta storm, and since they had one for sale, if I liked the rental, I might like to get one.

The counter employee paused and said "Oh, sorry! I can't rent the pistol to you because you're alone."

I had never heard this rule before & it isn't posted anywhere either. I siad "Really? I've never heard of that. This will be tricky for me because I always shoot by myself here. So can I never rent a pistol from you then? That doesn't make sense to me." The employee seemed a little hang-dog and reiterated the rule, but didn't explain what the logic was behind the rule. I mentioned I was disappointed and surprised--especially as I was interested in buying the one they had for sale, depending on feel of the rental.

At this point the employee said that if I wanted to wait for the shop business to clear out a little, they would not mind going back to the range with me--but only for about 5 minutes, and I might have to wait for a long time.

Now I'm thinking: I shoot here frequently and am a responsible patron. You won't rent me a pistol because I'm alone? But you will rent one to 4 silly girls who are treating this trip to the range like it's an amusement park. You won't rent a pistol to someone who knows about guns, but you will rent them to kids who don't. You offer to let me try it out if you go with me (??) yet the 4 girls who are being silly aren't being supervised, unless the eldest passes for a supervisor. If you do go back with me, I maybe get 5 minutes trying out the pistol. There are guys who have been talking in the back the entire time, and have never come out to the front to assist you or the customers--what is going on?

I cashed out. I did not confront the counter employee. I think they were doing the best they could do without support from the back. I don't know the store dynamic, but it must be a little off to not support a co-worker and not help with customers.

I have considered going back to speak with the owner and ask for clarification about range policies, gun rental policy and safety procedures. As I said at the top of this post, they do offer a selection of compelling classes--but I felt unsafe in the range that day, felt worried for the safety of other shooters (girls included)--and was offended by their unposted gun rental policy.

That has left a lasting, very negative impression upon me. I've since found a different range that's much more safety conscious and yet at the same time, more laid back too. Mostly older shooters there, ex and current LEOs/military. Have seen families shooting with young kids--never felt unsafe.

Maybe I just needed to post and get it out of my brain. Does this seem as bizarre to you guys too? And should state--this is all based upon my personal perspective and what I feel I witnessed.
 
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#2 ·
The rental policy does seem off...of all the ranges I've visited, I've never been denied a rental because I was alone. I'd be interested to hear what the reasoning for the policy is? Where they worried you were going to steal it? I'm sure you weren't giving those vibes off...weird.
 
#5 ·
i took it as the same....i dont necessarily agree with it...especially with someone who has obviously carreid his own firearms in...but it may just be their policy...

the girls concerns me also...you have rules to protect your shop from a suicide...apparently...but some silly kids show up and its business as usual without them taking anything you are relating to them seriously...interesting...

i am most bothered though by the lack of customer service and awareness on the other employees part with the crowd in the shop as related...it seesm more tlike they were ignoring customers than anything else and its not called for...

glad you found someplace else that seems to agree with you...and nice touch adding that it was your perception....not enough people can appreciate that one bad experience may not be representative of what can be expected in a business...who knows...maybe it was just a real bad day for them...
 
#8 ·
The range I go to has a similar rule. Basically, you can only rent a gun if you're in a group of 2 or more, or if you have a permit to carry (I would guess if you also brought in your own guns, that would work too--I've never needed to test it).

It makes sense because a person wanting to commit suicide is less likely to do it with another present (especially someone they know).

Remember--LESS LIKELY, it won't necessarily prevent it, and of course I've seen the video of the woman who shoots her son, and then herself at the range.

Now, with the girls--that's just an unfortunate situation, but did you get a chance to see their gun handling? Talking on your cell phone and buying soda doesn't necessarily mean negligent handling (maybe they're just annoying). It does go against the grain of unspoken range etiquette though.
 
#9 ·
Weird good call on moving to another range. Thank you for reminding me how lucky I am to have a backyard range even if I don't have any guns to rent
 
#10 ·
I would've looked some where else to shoot such as you did. My safety and the safety of others is very important to me at the range. Customer service is also as important.....It's the deciding factor as to whether or not I return and give them any more business in the future. It's an oxy moron to not let an experienced shooter test fire a pistol that they're maybe interested in purchasing but they allow 4 non-experienced females fire gun(s) like no big deal. Ask yourself this.....Who is more dangerous?? +1 for you to find a safer range!
 
#11 ·
I could understand the policy if you didn't own any firearms and never shot there before,and show up to rent a pistol,but there was a murder suicide committed by a lady and her son.she rented a pistol and they were shooting when suddenly she shot him in the head and then shot herself.
 
#15 ·
Or...(situation dependent)...help/teach them to be safer shooters...

If I overheard someone saying they don't remember which part was the magazine, I think I would have offered some assistance.
 
#13 ·
I would try to find out who owned the range and shop, then politely discuss the issue with him/her. The owner would more than likely explain the policy as well as be interested in the actions of the employees and the unsafe actions of some of the patrons. The owner may or may not be held liable for accidents but either way a responsible owner will want to know about these incidents and work to reduce them. Even if they are not held liable the bad publicity could ruin the business. If I were the owner I certainly would want to know what goes on when I'm not there.
 
#14 ·
If I had made up my mind to off myself, another person along wouldn't stop me, and, in fact, may add to the bloodshed. That rule is senseless. no doubt some lawyer or insurance Co. came up with that one.

I'd have been tempted to shoot a couple of cell phones, but the wiser half of me says maybe a nice sit-down with the owner/manager to discuss these issues is more in order. Maybe the Prez would supply the beer.
 
#25 ·
Rules are funny. Several years ago it was popular to steal a car you were test driving, so the car stores started requiring the salesmen to ride along. The next tend? Steal the car, kidnap and rob the sales man. Rule got switched back.

I think your concerns are legit. And regarding the giddy teens...I certainly would of left the range. I don't need to be a part of that accident. I have left the range before when I have seen idiot shooters. I think " man this idiot is going to hurt someone,but its not gonna be me" and I leave.
I don't care if those girls were world class markswomen, they apparently were not in the right frame of mind to be safety conscious or handling firearms. I would have skipped the range entirely.
 
#16 ·
Yep, and that's why I prefer to shoot on a big ranch with no one else for miles. With people like that at a crowded range, I would be in a constant state of asking myself, "When is someone's bullet going to go ripping through me?"
 
#17 ·
I hadn't thought of the suicide thing. I suppose that makes sense--although it would be odd for me to show up with my own pistol, target practice, use up all my ammo and then rent one of theirs to shoot myself!

I never saw how well the girls were shooting. Perhaps they were all excellent and safe--and certainly no one got hurt. Just because they were acting squirrely I shouldn't assume they shot poorly or without regard for the rules. But when my radar goes off and I don't feel comfortable, I listen to that. Granted, one day shouldn't mar many months worth of shooting at a range, but I can't shake the bad feeling I left with.

I did get to try out the Storm (at the new range I'm now a member of!). Boy was it a fun pistol to shoot. Had an interesting look to it too. I ended up getting a little Sig p238. Had a price I couldn't ignore & will arrive any day. Can't wait to try it out.

Thanks again guys. Guess I just needed to get it off my chest.
 
#18 ·
Well, you've moved on to a new range so I guess it doesn't matter but if it had been me I would have called and talked to the manager or owner and seen if you could clarify the rule.

When I worked at a gun range we had many rules that we would enforce to new shooters like no drawing and firing, no rapid fire, and we would put them as close to the observation glass as possible. Those customers we got to know very well and showed themselves to be very proficient we would give them a pass on some of the rules and tell them just to be discreet when other shooters were present. We'd also stick them way down in the boonies so no one would bother them or pull a "well, he can do it, why can't I?" kind of a thing.

Of course, sometimes new employees or employees who didn't know the regulars wouldn't know the "exceptions" to the rules and could get pretty strict with people who'd we let bend said rules and it would take the customer coming back and saying, "Hey, your new guy told me I couldn't do x when so-and-so told me I could, what gives?" to remind us to fill in the new guy.

Who knows. Either way, I would have
 
#19 ·
Thats the scary part about shooting at public shooting ranges, theres always that chance of somebody doing the unexpexted. Used to shoot at MSAR back in Maryland and they had a guy walk in rented a gun & ammo and shot his self. The range only had six or seven lanes kind of close quarters in the event that somebody starts popping shots off the wrong way.


"Hope for the best but plan for the worst"
 
#24 ·
No doubt, and with that selfish act anyone around them has to live with that image and memory for the rest of their life.. Sad reality and another reason to use a private range or go outdoors on BLM or private land, etc. Unfortunately some of us don't have those options as easily at hand so we must rely on situational awareness and hope that something like that never happens, and if something doesn't seem right with safety practices or attitudes be willing to leave.
 
#22 ·
I think your concerns are legit. And regarding the giddy teens...I certainly would of left the range. I don't need to be a part of that accident. I have left the range before when I have seen idiot shooters. I think " man this idiot is going to hurt someone,but its not gonna be me" and I leave.
 
#26 ·
I have been through some similar experience as you did especially when the range is full, including witnessing a lot of safety violations. Glad I don't go to indoor ranges anymore and now go to an outdoor range. Not only can I rapid fire (not allowed in most indoor ranges in my area), I can also shoot from a lot of different positions. Safety rules are also enforced and it is never crowded.
 
#27 ·
On a better note, I will have an opportunity to shoot out in the country in a couple weeks--and working on different shooting positions is one thing I'm REALLY excited about! There won't be any gates or benches in the way so I can lay flat, kneel, sit, lean--whatever.
 
#28 ·
congrats on finding a place to really shoot. I made up these Homemade Target Stands. What I like about these is they are inexpensive to make, so you can make a few to set up at different ranges and arrangements. They also break down so five or six easily fit in the trunk. I use cut out card board silhouette targets on them. For different scenarios, like shoot don't shoot or hostage scenarios. With my back turned my shooting partner arranges the targets we put colored T shirts from the second hand store on them. Than my bud stands in front of me my back to the targets and tells me which colors are the BG. I turn and blast away. Of course they are good for static precision and silhouette shooting as well. Private ranges rule you can do far more realistic training there
 
#29 ·
What a great idea--the thrift store shirts on shoot/don't shoot! We may have to try that. I'm really looking forward to trying to hit some targets while I'm on the move. Up til now everything's been static. I want to practice point and aim--muzzle on the form and shoot for center mass, and exercise those skills on this trip. I can always work on bullseyes at the range. Great tip--thanks!
 
#30 ·
Unfortunately, a gun range is viewed as an amusement park to those that have zero gun experience. These folks go to the range by themselves and expect to pick up a gun and know what the hell they're doing - safety isn't even a consideration.

Fortunately, the range I go to is pretty good about dealing with these people. There are always 2 or more people behind the counter handling sales and the range. They require a "membership" to use the range, which anyone can obtain, and when issuing a membership, they give you a basic rundown of the range rules and how to operate the target controls while also getting a feel for your firearm experience. If they feel you're not experienced enough, they won't hesitate to take a few minutes to give you a safety lesson. Also, every lane is on a live feed camera into the main store where the employees monitor it. If someone is being unsafe or blatantly not handling the firearm well, they come in and fix the problem (or attempt to). I've seen them both give warnings and kick people out of the shop after failing to heed warnings.

Unfortunately, the store attracts a lot of - for lack of a better word - "thugs" and the employees are good at handling them. I was there shooting a week ago when some 'characters' walked in who looked like they were up to no good. After purchasing a magazine randomly, taking it out to the parking lot, then coming back in and exchanging it becaus eit didn't fit, they began using the floor model lasers to shine each other in the chest and eyes. They did this for about 45 seconds before they got chewed out and warned that next time they would be banned from the store.

On the flip side, the staff is very knowledgeable and very friendly with folks when they are being safe. Furthermore, I have bought a gun from them and wasn't able to find a cheaper price (for a new gun) online even.
 
#31 ·
Things like that are the reason I stopped going to a public range, I now go to Acton Indiana to shoot at custom cop corporation, Its in the middle of nowhere, and anyone that comes down there to shoot has to be a trained security officer, LEO, or take one of the owners safety courses. After that it is free to come shoot all day, but I generally leave 5-7 bucks in the tip jar he has down there, and we have to clean up after ourselves
 
#32 ·
I've heard of not renting guns to people who didn't bring one of their own, but NEVER not doing so if you're alone. EVERY time I go to the private range to which I belong, I go alone. I'm still on a range full of people. We also have strict rules and vigilant range officers.

We've got a public indoor range here that's like the one mentioned by the OP. It's poorly (if at all) supervised, sometimes afflicted with the counter guy's neer do well pal making loud and offensive smalltalk, and generally filthy and poorly maintained. I haven't gone there in years, since in the space of about fifteen minutes, I was swept on one side by a guy's Ruger semi-auto and on the other side by three guys, yelling at each other in Serbo-Croatian, while wrestling over a loaded Remington 870.

I go to the range to shoot, not GET shot.
 
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