Loaning a gun - legalities?

Loaning a gun - legalities?

This is a discussion on Loaning a gun - legalities? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Just to be clear, this has never come up for me before but I'm curious about it. Let's say that a friend or family member ...

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Thread: Loaning a gun - legalities?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Loaning a gun - legalities?

    Just to be clear, this has never come up for me before but I'm curious about it.

    Let's say that a friend or family member tells you that there have been home invasions in their neighborhood (or assault, or rape, or robbery, insert "preferred" crime here). They know that you're a gun owner and enthusiast, so they ask to borrow a gun, knowing that you have several.

    Now let's say that they use the gun in a way that's determined to be unjustified.

    Can you be held liable in any way? Accessory to murder, etc...?
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    I don't know, but after Katrina my ex-wife wanted to borrow a gun. My wife loaned her her Stoeger Coach gun. I spend a lot of time hoping she never needed it. Under different circumstances I would just tell them to go buy a gun. I might even give them the money. But after Katrina there was not a lot of options.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Just to be clear, this has never come up for me before but I'm curious about it.

    Let's say that a friend or family member tells you that there have been home invasions in their neighborhood (or assault, or rape, or robbery, insert "preferred" crime here). They know that you're a gun owner and enthusiast, so they ask to borrow a gun, knowing that you have several.

    Now let's say that they use the gun in a way that's determined to be unjustified.

    Can you be held liable in any way? Accessory to murder, etc...?
    As long as your innocence was proven there should be no charges against you as the owner of the gun. If you loaned the gun with good faith in your relative then what crime have you committed?
    “I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.”
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    As long as the person you loan the gun to could legally possess a gun (not a felon or on a domestic violence charge, of legal age, etc.) then you would be fine. Now you probably will be minus one gun but you are not responsible for their actions.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    It's legal in a lot of states,but not in all states,but before I just give somebody a gun,I make sure they know how to operate it and when they are justified to use deadly force,also if they will have it in an environment where they don't have a way to secure the weapon from small hands would loan them a safe to store the gun in until needed, and can read gun safety rules to me
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    That question really depends on your state and local laws. Here in AZ it would be just like loaning someone a car; as long as they had no stated intent to break the law with it, then you bear no responsibility for their actions. If they borrowed your car (and you thought it was to go to the grocery store or something), and then the next day went and robbed a bank with it you wouldn't be liable for their actions in AZ. Same principle with loaning them a firearm.

    For instance, I had a friend who was getting his CCW but hadn't purchased his EDC yet, and asked to borrow a pistol for his class firing requirement. I had no problem granting the request. (and for the record it came home squeaky clean, too...he knows how to clean guns!)

    YMMV and IANAL.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
    Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective

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    I feel my guns are kind of like wife. I DON'T lend either one out. PERIOD. NO DISCUSHION.
    US ARMY Veteran 1965-1967 Vietnam 1966-1967
    WELCOME HOME TO ALL WHO SERVED, AND FOR THOSE STILL SERVING,
    A BIG THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. FOR THOSE OF YOU DOWN RANGE
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    A PATRIOT BELIEVES IN IT....A VETERAN LIVED IT

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    I have a friend who is dis-abled. I GAVE him a small caliber semi for home protection because he is unable to defend himself or his wife. She is an attractive woman and he has told me of times when wise guys have made remarks when they were out.
    I hope never to see the gun again and wish him well. To my knowlege it has never been fire but he keeps it in his wheelchair with his medicine.

  9. #9
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    You can borrow my truck, you can borrow my boat, you can borrow my dog... heck you can even borrow my wife, but you can't borrow any of my guns. That's what a cop told me after one of my EMS partners stole one of my guns and left town after I loaned it to him.

    What happened was, one of my EMS partners was wanting to get a new gun, and I was wanting to sell mine. So I let him borrow it to try out. Well, within a couple of days, he ended up getting fired. Before I could get my gun back he and his family packed up and split. They stole all of the appliances from REMCO they were renting including TV, refrigerator, washer & dryer, stereo system and they left owing their landlord 3 months back rent. He also split with my gun.

    So, I went down to the police station to report my gun stolen and they refused to take a stolen firearm report because I had "loaned" him the gun. Cop said it was a civil matter. I was just wanting to get a police report on it in case the gun ever came up one day in a crime. That's when the cop gave me his line about loaning me his truck, boat just about anything else but never loan anyone a gun. I took that to heart and I have never loaned another gun to anyone, even though I've been asked many times.

    I even went to a different precinct house to see if they'd take stolen gun report and got the same story. Because I loaned it to the guy, it technically wasn't stolen. Even though they know it was. So, go figure.

    Anyway, I don't loan guns. I've still got a S&W 459 out there somewhere registered in my name. So far, it's never come back on me. And that was over 20 years ago but it still bugs me from time to time.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Another topic in which the answer varies from state to state.

    Not a question of if you would loan one but one of if you had.

    I tend to agree with NC Bulleye. If you had no previous knowledge that the person you loaned the gun to had: a felony conviction; a drinking/drug problem; intended to commit a crime; or any other issue that would prevent that person from purchasing a firearm, then you would probably be okay. Yes, you might be named in a lawsuit, if there were one, but would most likely be dropped from it.

    Personally, I wouldn't unless it was someone I really (really, really) trusted (Not likely), but I would encourage that person to purchase one.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

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    Member Array RR9501's Avatar
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    If i was to loan a firearm to someone i would make them sign a waiver relieving me of any liable action. Because if they were stupid enough to commit a crime with at the DA would be all over me like white on rice...lol
    Guns don't kill people, People kill people!

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    Dukalmighty and MinistrMalic have said the same thing:
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Another topic in which the answer varies from state to state.
    For example, California has a Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale" law aka "Safe Handgun List" that reads:

    Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.
    Here's an impartial illustration from pro-gun Calguns.net

    As it stands, at a CA firing range, I can't legally let a friend shoot my S&W M&P without a mag safety or any other safety because California has deemed the pistol, "unsafe" as linked above in "Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale" law, the Cal Penal Code 12126(c), (d) says:
    has no safeties to prevent accidental firing... and magazine disconnect mechanism - that prevents a semiautomatic pistol that has a detachable magazine from operating to strike the primer of ammunition in the firing chamber when a detachable magazine is not inserted in the pistol".

    So better check the laws before lending in CA, MA, and NY, because they have similar lists but that is changing thanks to challenges in cases like Heller.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Hey Bark'n,

    If you have the serial #, go straight to the ATF; bet they'll list it for you.

  14. #14
    kpw
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    As has been said, it's not legal everywhere. Long guns are exempt but, in PA, the only way to legally lend a handgun is if the recipient has an LTCF or other state's equivalent. Other than that, all transfers have to be through an FFL except to immediate family members. We don't have registration in PA but try telling that to the state police. I have legally loaned guns to certain people but it's a very small list.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

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    GM
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    Even if legal, I would not like to lend a gun like that; there are more things to consider than just the “as long as you are innocent” part.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

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