It seems I bought a stolen gun...

This is a discussion on It seems I bought a stolen gun... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by tglassburner Who's going to start gunfax.com? "Yes sir, here is your gumfax..." [Blows bubble] Good luck getting this resolved OP....

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Thread: It seems I bought a stolen gun...

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array joker1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tglassburner View Post
    Who's going to start gunfax.com?
    "Yes sir, here is your gumfax..." [Blows bubble]


    Good luck getting this resolved OP.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    The pawn broker is subject to all of the federal regulations that apply to other FFL dealers. When the broker took the gun in either as a pawn, consignment or sale he could have contacted NICS on an optional basis prior to accepting the firearm. Your local dealer is correct. He is not required to run a background check by federal law or by your state law. Some states do require a background check. Federal law does not require a background check but of course recommends it. Some dealers or pawns forgo a background check when taking a used gun for sale or trade. If NICS returns a denied, there is no sale but the dealer or pawn broker must then contact both the local police and ATF. An NICS background check only checks a person. It does not return serial numbers.

    Contact the FFL first. Do not offer to pay for return shipping. Contact ATF only if the Pawn does not agree to immediately return your money.
    If you were buying it from the pawn shop and it is stolen, the pawn shop is liable to return your money to you and they have the liability of getting their money back from the person they took it in from. You should not be left out of your money. A call to the pawn shop's local PD may encourage them to do so or they could face losing their business license for trying to sell stolen property and then not returning your money.
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    If you were buying it from the pawn shop and it is stolen, the pawn shop is liable to return your money to you and they have the liability of getting their money back from the person they took it in from. You should not be left out of your money. A call to the pawn shop's local PD may encourage them to do so or they could face losing their business license for trying to sell stolen property and then not returning your money.
    Are they? I don't know the answer to that. I know it would not be good business practice if the pawn will not make good on the deal. I think Gunbroker.com can also help with a resolution but they are not obligated to do so. It is supposed to be reported to ATF within 48 hours. Maryland police should have done that by now, but who knows. The reason why the OP needs to get his money back pronto is because the stolen gun is not going to be returned to the pawn broker. I don't know who's jurisdiction it becomes. Maryland Police, the city police where the pawn is located or ATF. It is like counterfeit money. Once it is turned in to the Feds you don't get it back and you don't get reimbursed.
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  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    (/snip). Once it is turned in to the Feds you don't get it back and you don't get reimbursed.
    I was thinking the same thing. Sucks big time. When things are stolen, people lose money. I hope you CAN get your money back; I really do. I had a Kahr cw9 stolen from me, not too long after purchase. The biggest thing that irritated me was the fact that I had paid good money for this thing, and it was a total loss. I would have been better emotionally, and saved time just to throw a cash into a blender.

  6. #20
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    Well the good news is you were never in possession of stolen property, so you can't be charged.

    As a contract is not complete until both parties deliver, it is still up to him to deliver to you the buyer or return your money.

    Also, might not the Pawn Shop be guilty of selling stolen property? Or, at a minimum, not want to have to defend against the charge?

    Not sure where the Pawn Shop was but most States have a law like ours:

    18.2-108.01. Larceny with intent to sell or distribute; sale of stolen property; penalty.
    ....
    B. Any person who sells, attempts to sell or possesses with intent to sell or distribute any stolen property with an aggregate value of $200 or more where he knew or should have known that the property was stolen is guilty of a Class 5 felony.

    I agree with SIGP250.

    Contact the FFL first. Do not offer to pay for return shipping. Contact ATF only if the Pawn does not agree to immediately return your money.
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    The transaction was not completed, so the pawn shop has no right to keep his money. They also cannot accept an item if they know it is stolen. It would be different if he bought it from them (i.e. face-to-face) and found out later that it was stolen. He would then have to seek legal action to get his money back. Since he has never accpeted transfer of the item, they can't legally keep his funds. A quick search of the pawn shop licensing agency in that state would be a good resource to make a phone call. I'm sure it wouldn't be worth losing their license over. If someone tries to pay you with a bogus bill and you recognize it as such and tell them you can't accept it, they can't say "no takesie backsies" and keep your item.

    PS. What state is the pawn shop located? I'll be glad to do a little research and PM ya what I find.
    Last edited by BugDude; September 9th, 2010 at 08:21 PM. Reason: added PS
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  8. #22
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    I don't think that you will have any difficulty getting a FULL refund. No gun shop could stay in business selling stolen guns.
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  9. #23
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    I've also heard of that kind of thing as a scam. In fact that's 1 reason you never should make public the full serial number of a gun. Some flake can call it in as stolen and cause you grief. Since the bids never got up there I wonder if the pawn shop reported it stolen just to get it back.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    Local Circus, Las Vegas Style

    In 1985 I purchased a S&W Model 28 from a local gun store.
    In Las Vegas all guns that are purchased by a gun store have to record the DL information. date. Etc of the seller and it is turned in weekly to the LVMPD. When a gun is sold, the buyer fills out not only the 4472 but also a duplicate form issued by the LVMPD and a "blue" registration card is issued to the buyer.
    This information is also picked up by the LVMPD on a weekly basics.

    I had this gun for 13 months and then traded it in at the Accuracy gun store in Las Vegas.

    I traded it in on a Friday afternoon. Early Monday morning I received a call from a Las Vegas detective "demanding" me to bring the gun to the Las Vegas Sherriff Dept as the gun had been stolen.

    We quickly got into a Pi**ing match when I told him that I had traded it in to Accuracy on Friday afternoon. He called me lair, and demanded the gun. After a few choice words on both our parts I told him what he could do to himself and that he had better check with Accuracy gun shop before he did anything stupid.

    Rick Grey (deceased) the owner of Accuracy gun shop and a friend of mine called me, me on Monday afternoon and relayed the run in he had with the same detective earlier that morning.

    As it turned out the gun had been stolen from Accuracy gun shop 4 years earlier and had been sold and registered by LVMPD to 3 different owners before I traded it back in to Accuracy.

    Accuracy was very busy the day I traded it in. Rick checked to see if I had my registration card, which I did so he didn't run a stolen check on the gun.

    Which he normally did if the seller didn't have the "blue card".

    He had sold the gun to a gun dealer From Texas the next day ( Saturday).

    That Monday the LVMPD detective demanded that Rick had to go to Texas to get the gun, bring it back to the Las Vegas Sherriff's office and when they were through with it would be returned to him as recovered.

    Rick gave the Metro Detective the Dealers information and told him if he wanted the gun to go to Texas and get it.

    Nothing more was said about the gun except Rick and I laughed about it once in a while. It was taken out of the system as a stolen gun and marked recovered.

    The Detective was a jerk, no professional courtesy, no professionalism, just demanding, overbearing and refusing to listen.


    FWIW I worked as a State Investrigator in Nevada for 24 years before I retired in 2006.

  11. #25
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    In VA, and I assume many other states, pawn shops have to turn over a 'daily' list of potentially stolen items and their serial numbers to the local PD to be cross-checked against their hot sheet. Not sure if they run the firearms through NCIC.
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  12. #26
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    If he refuses to return your money,Sue him on Judge Judy,I would love to hear him explain why it's okay to keep your money after selling you a stolen gun,I haven't heard her say are you really that stupid in awhile
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  13. #27
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    Pawn shops are required to turn over a list to the PD of items pawned specifically to check for stolen items. All may not be lost many times you will get a hit on a gun being stolen only to find out it is the wrong gun but the serial number was the same so have faith.
    NCIC, National Crime Informatin Center, is what LE uses to run nationwide criminal history checks and so on. There is a request you can do to check to see if a firearm is stolen with the PD you simply fill out a form with your info and the gun info and they run it for you, but if you go in and do the check and the gun is stolen expect to turn over all info on the location of the firearm, if you havent purchased yet, and so on. If you have already purchased be prepared for them to take possession of it and answer some questions as to where you got it from.
    We did it free for people who came in some departments may charge for it.
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  14. #28
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    IN 2009 I purchased a NIB Colt Single action. Before I purchased the gun I contacted the Cochise County Sherriff office and asked them to run the gun on NCIC to check to see if the gun was stolen. It came back "no record found"

    Five days later I received a call from the Sherriff's office, a Deputy Williams, asking me if I still had the gun as it had just been reported stolen, the owner had just came back home from vacation.

    I met with Deputy Williams at the local substation, he took the report and I surrendered the Colt. What a difference. Deputy Williams was a professional, calm, courteous, a real gentleman.

    The owner got he gun back in the same condition it was in when it was stolen NIB.
    Deputy Williams and I chuckled when I told him I was on my way out the door to go to the range to put a couple hundred rounds through that gun, when he called.

    No I did not get my money back.

    FWIW Cochise County Sherriff Offices issues Colt 1911 in .45 ACP to their deputies

  15. #29
    cj
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    Huh. Shops in my area are paranoid about receiving stolen property. They claim the police stop by regularly to browse and watch for items. Of course, it's a small town with relatively low theft rates...and there's a flea market just over the state border that I've heard is THE place to move stolen items.

  16. #30
    mrm
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    On behalf of all pawnshops nation wide I sincerely apologize for this happening (I have been a pawnbroker for 12 yrs). The state regs in Montana at least state that we have to run a NCIC check on all firearms that come into the shop. Not only do we give our customers their money back when this happens (with anything not just firearms) we give them an additional credit in the store for their inconvenience.
    Now one time we brought in a pistol and called the NCIC and it was negative so we pawned it and sold the firearm after it came out of pawn, about 6 months after we pawned it the original owner got around to reporting it stolen, then the person we sold it to needed a little loan so they brought the gun back and pawned so one of our guys NCIC checked it and it came back stolen (boy were they confused cause they bought it from us). So I ended up not only giving them their money back I sold them one of our other guns for 1/2 price.

    Do me a favor and just go back to the pawnshop and be really nice, not pissed off or mad at them cause it is probably just an accident, and I am sure they will treat you right.
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