This is a discussion on It seems I bought a stolen gun... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by tglassburner Who's going to start gunfax.com? "Yes sir, here is your gumfax..." [Blows bubble] Good luck getting this resolved OP....
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No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
- Zen Saying
Well the good news is you were never in possession of stolen property, so you can't be charged.
As a contract is not complete until both parties deliver, it is still up to him to deliver to you the buyer or return your money.
Also, might not the Pawn Shop be guilty of selling stolen property? Or, at a minimum, not want to have to defend against the charge?
Not sure where the Pawn Shop was but most States have a law like ours:
§ 18.2-108.01. Larceny with intent to sell or distribute; sale of stolen property; penalty.
B. Any person who sells, attempts to sell or possesses with intent to sell or distribute any stolen property with an aggregate value of $200 or more where he knew or should have known that the property was stolen is guilty of a Class 5 felony.
I agree with SIGP250.
Contact the FFL first. Do not offer to pay for return shipping. Contact ATF only if the Pawn does not agree to immediately return your money.
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
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The transaction was not completed, so the pawn shop has no right to keep his money. They also cannot accept an item if they know it is stolen. It would be different if he bought it from them (i.e. face-to-face) and found out later that it was stolen. He would then have to seek legal action to get his money back. Since he has never accpeted transfer of the item, they can't legally keep his funds. A quick search of the pawn shop licensing agency in that state would be a good resource to make a phone call. I'm sure it wouldn't be worth losing their license over. If someone tries to pay you with a bogus bill and you recognize it as such and tell them you can't accept it, they can't say "no takesie backsies" and keep your item.
PS. What state is the pawn shop located? I'll be glad to do a little research and PM ya what I find.
Last edited by BugDude; September 9th, 2010 at 08:21 PM. Reason: added PS
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
I don't think that you will have any difficulty getting a FULL refund. No gun shop could stay in business selling stolen guns.
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
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I've also heard of that kind of thing as a scam. In fact that's 1 reason you never should make public the full serial number of a gun. Some flake can call it in as stolen and cause you grief. Since the bids never got up there I wonder if the pawn shop reported it stolen just to get it back.
Local Circus, Las Vegas Style
In 1985 I purchased a S&W Model 28 from a local gun store.
In Las Vegas all guns that are purchased by a gun store have to record the DL information. date. Etc of the seller and it is turned in weekly to the LVMPD. When a gun is sold, the buyer fills out not only the 4472 but also a duplicate form issued by the LVMPD and a "blue" registration card is issued to the buyer.
This information is also picked up by the LVMPD on a weekly basics.
I had this gun for 13 months and then traded it in at the Accuracy gun store in Las Vegas.
I traded it in on a Friday afternoon. Early Monday morning I received a call from a Las Vegas detective "demanding" me to bring the gun to the Las Vegas Sherriff Dept as the gun had been stolen.
We quickly got into a Pi**ing match when I told him that I had traded it in to Accuracy on Friday afternoon. He called me lair, and demanded the gun. After a few choice words on both our parts I told him what he could do to himself and that he had better check with Accuracy gun shop before he did anything stupid.
Rick Grey (deceased) the owner of Accuracy gun shop and a friend of mine called me, me on Monday afternoon and relayed the run in he had with the same detective earlier that morning.
As it turned out the gun had been stolen from Accuracy gun shop 4 years earlier and had been sold and registered by LVMPD to 3 different owners before I traded it back in to Accuracy.
Accuracy was very busy the day I traded it in. Rick checked to see if I had my registration card, which I did so he didn't run a stolen check on the gun.
Which he normally did if the seller didn't have the "blue card".
He had sold the gun to a gun dealer From Texas the next day ( Saturday).
That Monday the LVMPD detective demanded that Rick had to go to Texas to get the gun, bring it back to the Las Vegas Sherriff's office and when they were through with it would be returned to him as recovered.
Rick gave the Metro Detective the Dealers information and told him if he wanted the gun to go to Texas and get it.
Nothing more was said about the gun except Rick and I laughed about it once in a while. It was taken out of the system as a stolen gun and marked recovered.
The Detective was a jerk, no professional courtesy, no professionalism, just demanding, overbearing and refusing to listen.
FWIW I worked as a State Investrigator in Nevada for 24 years before I retired in 2006.
In VA, and I assume many other states, pawn shops have to turn over a 'daily' list of potentially stolen items and their serial numbers to the local PD to be cross-checked against their hot sheet. Not sure if they run the firearms through NCIC.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
If he refuses to return your money,Sue him on Judge Judy,I would love to hear him explain why it's okay to keep your money after selling you a stolen gun,I haven't heard her say are you really that stupid in awhile
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
Pawn shops are required to turn over a list to the PD of items pawned specifically to check for stolen items. All may not be lost many times you will get a hit on a gun being stolen only to find out it is the wrong gun but the serial number was the same so have faith.
NCIC, National Crime Informatin Center, is what LE uses to run nationwide criminal history checks and so on. There is a request you can do to check to see if a firearm is stolen with the PD you simply fill out a form with your info and the gun info and they run it for you, but if you go in and do the check and the gun is stolen expect to turn over all info on the location of the firearm, if you havent purchased yet, and so on. If you have already purchased be prepared for them to take possession of it and answer some questions as to where you got it from.
We did it free for people who came in some departments may charge for it.
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013
IN 2009 I purchased a NIB Colt Single action. Before I purchased the gun I contacted the Cochise County Sherriff office and asked them to run the gun on NCIC to check to see if the gun was stolen. It came back "no record found"
Five days later I received a call from the Sherriff's office, a Deputy Williams, asking me if I still had the gun as it had just been reported stolen, the owner had just came back home from vacation.
I met with Deputy Williams at the local substation, he took the report and I surrendered the Colt. What a difference. Deputy Williams was a professional, calm, courteous, a real gentleman.
The owner got he gun back in the same condition it was in when it was stolen NIB.
Deputy Williams and I chuckled when I told him I was on my way out the door to go to the range to put a couple hundred rounds through that gun, when he called.
No I did not get my money back.
FWIW Cochise County Sherriff Offices issues Colt 1911 in .45 ACP to their deputies
Huh. Shops in my area are paranoid about receiving stolen property. They claim the police stop by regularly to browse and watch for items. Of course, it's a small town with relatively low theft rates...and there's a flea market just over the state border that I've heard is THE place to move stolen items.
On behalf of all pawnshops nation wide I sincerely apologize for this happening (I have been a pawnbroker for 12 yrs). The state regs in Montana at least state that we have to run a NCIC check on all firearms that come into the shop. Not only do we give our customers their money back when this happens (with anything not just firearms) we give them an additional credit in the store for their inconvenience.
Now one time we brought in a pistol and called the NCIC and it was negative so we pawned it and sold the firearm after it came out of pawn, about 6 months after we pawned it the original owner got around to reporting it stolen, then the person we sold it to needed a little loan so they brought the gun back and pawned so one of our guys NCIC checked it and it came back stolen (boy were they confused cause they bought it from us). So I ended up not only giving them their money back I sold them one of our other guns for 1/2 price.
Do me a favor and just go back to the pawnshop and be really nice, not pissed off or mad at them cause it is probably just an accident, and I am sure they will treat you right.
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)