Well due to all the advice I got here http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...72#post1776372 I shot the Markii yesterday. If you don't own 1 you need to. Right out of the box without any cleaning grouping 2" @ 15 yrds actually cut the center x ring out 200 rounds not 1 failure of any kind. Thanks to everyone who helped me decide. Here are the pix. No Ret you can't have it.