When Can We Deny Gun Rights to Mentally Ill?

This is a discussion on When Can We Deny Gun Rights to Mentally Ill? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I had a buddy back in AF Tech school who at one time had indulged in a bit of the drug scene and had been ...

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 37 of 37
Like Tree3Likes

Thread: When Can We Deny Gun Rights to Mentally Ill?

  1. #31
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    14,581
    I had a buddy back in AF Tech school who at one time had indulged in a bit of the drug scene and had been placed in a mental facililty "for observation." He said the near impossible thing to do is convince them you're not nuts. He said, "What do you do? Raise hell like a madman demanding to be released? ["He's obviously insane and a risk to society."] Sit there nice and quiet and wait? ["Withdrawn and depressed social misfit."]

    He admitted that experience put him on the straight and narrow.
    Last edited by OldVet; January 8th, 2013 at 03:20 PM.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,158
    Quote Originally Posted by Biologybrain View Post
    My husband experienced a terrible break-up at age 21. He was already somewhat abusing EtOH and had been under treatment for severe anxiety for 5 years (counselling & medication). His break-up caused him to do something stupid/suicidal in his mother's home. He was taken to the ER & "in-voluntarily" committed to the mental health hospital for 72 hours. He was released without comment & never heard from any legal representative. That was 10 years ago or so. He was never notified about being banned from gun ownership or concealed carry. He does still suffer from anxiety and bouts of depression, but is in a stable relationship (with me ;-) and has learned coping mechanisms for when his anxiety builds beyond the norm.

    He has since bought several guns going through the background check common here in KY. He has also applied for and received a Federal Firearms license approved by the ATF for his "hobby" of guns (his license is for the purchase & resale of "hobby guns" - those made prior to 1950 I think). We took our CCW course and he never thought of his "commitment" until he was given a denial notice. He has since turned in the requested paperwork, but their 20 days to give him a decision is long past. When he spoke to the office responsible he was given a bit of a runaround & told the legislators are trying to figure out how to change the laws and how that will affect his application.

    My comment/question is that the above scenario should never have happened. Either he's banned from gun ownership or not for his mental break over 10 years ago. If he was cleared by ATF to buy and sell guns (that still work, not just dummy guns) and if he's cleared the background check several times, why wouldn't he also be able to carry a weapon? Would anyone consider that he "lied" on his applications for his weapons and licenses when he never received notification that he should be banned?

    I agree with what others have said that "mental health" is too ambiguious to do anyone any good. Although he is my husband & I am definitely biased, I do not think someone with a history like his is any more of a risk that someone like me who has suicidal ideations caused by certain medications. However, since I've never sought treatment for those ideations (except curtailing the use of those medication) my CCW was granted to me.
    Thank you for an important post. Sadly, we are sure to see lots of legislation intended to keep the crazies from getting
    licenses, but not actually prescribing protections for folks such as your husband. I realize lawyers cost big bucks, and
    lawyers who specialize in this sort of thing cost bigger bucks, but there probably is a path to a court house door to contest
    the facts from the past and the decision.

    We have a weird legal environment in which the words, "I'm thinking I should kill you," might get you charged with
    anything from nothing at all to disorderly conduct, to making a terroristic threat, but importantly, a decent enough chance
    that not much of anything would happen; whereas, the words "I'm thinking I should kill myself" can cause you to lose
    all gun owner rights even though you have harmed no one, threatened no one, and done nothing at all.

    We (society, judges, cops, docs) constantly confuse ideas and thoughts with intentions and acts. Bottom line, be careful what you say, to whom, and how you say it.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,485
    I think it's plain to see the problems associated with prohibiting the "mentally ill" from purchasing/carrying firearms. Who decides what is "mentally ill" and what isn't? I've heard a lot of talking from people lately (on and off the forum) calling for stricter measures to prevent mentally ill people from gaining access to firearms.

    Let's say I've had a hard couple weeks, been real stressed out, and my tempers gotten a little short. Times are tough, and it can be a lot for a man to take when he's got a family to feed and unfortunate events get in the way. So I decide to go see a psychiatrist to talk it all out, learn some stress management techniques, etc. Now suppose this doc seems to think that I could maybe possibly just fly off the handle and kill myself, or others, because I've been stressed out. He'd be wrong, but suppose he thinks this anyway, and contacts authorities to make sure that it's known that I should not be allowed to purchase or carry firearms. All because I was a little more stressed than usual and sought help from a mental health professional.

    Maybe it sounds far-fetched, but I think this kind of thing would be a possibility if some people had their way.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

  5. #34
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    14,581
    The problem is the fine line between mentally ill, mentally disturbed, mental issues, and mentally unfit. Who gets to decide at what level gun possession is forbidden?
    pittypat21 likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  6. #35
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,158
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    The problem is the fine line between mentally ill, mentally disturbed, mental issues, and mentally unfit. Who gets to decide at what level gun possession is forbidden?
    Uh, we know who gets to decide; the docs and the judges. What we don't know, but can almost certainly guess, is the standard
    of proof, the access to appeals, and process.

    My grandpa used to have a saying-- something along the lines of: "If one person tells you you are nuts ignore them. If fifty
    people say 'nuts' consider that you might be nuts."
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  7. #36
    New Member Array OIFIIIVET's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Jackson, Michigan
    Posts
    1

    Each state has different laws on concealed carry and mentally ill

    Each state gun laws are different from the others I live in the state of Michigan and what and in regards to a concealed pistol license you fall under the Michigan Firearms Act 372. . With myself being a veteran and knowing that I have a mild case of PTSD I knew that there was going to be some questions that the gun board was going to want to ask me about my mental disorder from PTSD. Under Michigan public Firearms Act 372 the definition of mental illness means a substantial disorder. I was able to get a release from my doctor stating that I was in no way shape or form a danger to myself or anyone else if I was to obtain a CPL license. My doctor l also stated that I was fully capable of making sound mental decisions of caring and discharging a firearm in the state of Michigan when you apply for a cpl license you have to truthfully mark yes or no on a question to ask do you have a mental disorder at the present time. I answered yes knowing very well that I was going to have to appear before my local gun board.I appeared yesterday at my local gun board gave him the fax did not stay in there very long and was awarded my CPL license victory for veterans with mental disorders across the state of Michigan

  8. #37
    Member Array Badbullgator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    307
    Interesting and timely topic.
    A couple of years ago my wife was involuntarily held as a danger to herself or others. I assure you this was not the case. She was experiencing a reaction to several medications that were prescribed to her, however, this was not noted until she had other severe reactions that put her in the hospital for two week. We have been married thirty years and while all women are crazy, she is no more crazy than anyone else. Seriously her mental health has never been a question and as soon as the medication issue was discovered and resolved she is stable as can be. Some ER doc decided she was a danger to herself because she said her pain was so bad she wanted to die. Now that is quite a statement but there is a huge difference between someone who is in tremendous pain saying it hurts so bad they want to die and someone who wants to kill themselves.
    They tragedy here is there is apparently no way to appeal this. It is permanently on her health and legal records.
    A word to the wise isn't necessary, save it for the stupid

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Mel Gibson to Make Major Comeback in Movie Playing a Mentally Ill Man - Links
    By LanceORYGUN in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: December 6th, 2010, 05:35 PM
  2. Gun rights, voting rights clash in U.S. capital
    By Maverickx50 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: March 8th, 2009, 01:39 PM
  3. Support Move to Deny Berkeley Our Tax Dollars
    By pbanbury in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: February 8th, 2008, 09:40 PM
  4. CBS 60 Mins: Track mentally ill via federal dbase?
    By ccw9mm in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: May 1st, 2007, 11:37 PM
  5. Should Mentally Ill Adults have carry permits?
    By mrshonts in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: March 13th, 2005, 12:23 PM

Search tags for this page

adjustment disorder and gun ownership
,
admitted to mental facilities,firearm
,

admitted to mental facilities,firearm,california

,
baker act gun ownership
,

can you buy a gun after you've been baker acted

,

can you buy a gun if you have been in a mental hospital

,
florida concealed weapons permit baker act
,
how long do you have to wait to get a concealed weapons permit in florida if you had a bakers act
,

if i've been institutionalized can i ever get my gun rights back

,
mental hospital and gun rights
,
restoration of gun rights after 72 hour hold
,

will having adhd deny someone of owning a gun?

Click on a term to search for related topics.