so called 2nd rate ammo through your AR???? - Page 2

so called 2nd rate ammo through your AR????

This is a discussion on so called 2nd rate ammo through your AR???? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Nope, I concede to your obvious superiority. I'm sure your expertise will lend itself to you becoming renowned for your firearms knowledge and installing you ...

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Thread: so called 2nd rate ammo through your AR????

  1. #16
    Member Array usmcj's Avatar
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    Nope, I concede to your obvious superiority. I'm sure your expertise will lend itself to you becoming renowned for your firearms knowledge and installing you as a pillar of authority in all things firearms.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    I’m wondering how many people put so called “second rate" ammo through their AR's???
    Nope.

    I only put quality ammo through my AR, hand guns, et al.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. ó Winston Churchill

  3. #18
    Member Array claybreaker0's Avatar
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    I don't want to take away from the OP's posts, can someone please PM me the information on the "spare parts kit". I see that I can buy a full bolt carrier group for around $120, but I'm fairly new to my AR and would appreciate any information on what I should have as back up parts, and in the spare parts kit. I'm not too familiar with what parts break as to what parts don't. A main reason I have my Rock River AR is for bug out and SHTF scenarios, so a good spare parts kit really needs to be in with my gear. Thanks.
    "Being armed gives you options"

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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    For parts and all things m4-like, check out www.bravocompanyusa.com
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    It Beat out Colt and several others.
    Rock River didn't beat out anybody in the DEA contract, Colt and SigArms actually won a larger piece of the DEA contract than RRA did.
    Rock River Arms (RRA) recently sent DefenseReview a copy of their press release on DEA contract
    Here are the facts-something you won't find on any of RRA's press releases:

    From FBO Daily:

    AWARDS - July 4, 2003

    DEA-03-C-0030 - Estimated $115,142,537.00
    CARBINE RIFLE
    Sigarms, Inc., 18 Industrial Drive, Exeter, N. H. 03833

    DEA-03-C-0032 - Estimated $85,923,935.00
    CARBINE RIFLE
    Rock River Arms, Inc., 1042 Cleveland Road, Colona, Il. 61241

    DEA-03-C-0031 - Estimated $113,639,340.00
    CARBINE RIFLE
    Colt Defense LLC, PO Box 118, Hartford, Ct. 06141


    From USDOJ:

    DEA DEA-03-C-0030 Multi-Bureau Sigarms, Inc. 06/20/08 .223 Carbines

    DEA DEA-03-C-0031 Multi-Bureau Colt Defense 06/20/08 .223 Carbines

    DEA DEA-03-C-0032 Multi-Bureau Rock River Arms 06/20/08 .223 Carbines

    http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2003...003/10-awd.htm
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  6. #21
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    In regards to the OP it depends on how and what type of shooting you are going to do. A little here and there with cleaning in between you should have no issues, a fighting rifle class with 2000 rounds over two or three days yeah you may have some issues.

    The only rifles I have seen that will take the abuse and lack of maintenance associated with this type ammo are those using Fail Zero or similar coated bolts and hammers. The nasty stuff simply does not stick to them. They also have a completely coated Nickel Boron guns which I am using in my M4 build which nothing sticks to. One such gun just completed firing 5000 plus rounds of steel case wolf with no lube, no maintenance and no malfunctions. But you pay a price for that kind of reliability. This does not however cure the polymer sticky mess in the chamber left over from the cases and with enough rounds fired over a short period it will cause malfunctions in some rifles.

    As far as the RRA and other rifles debates some are mil spec and some are not. Generally the commercial guns are not made to take the abuse that the mil spec guns are. There have been problems at one time or another with all of them. I have owned RRA and never had an issue and have seen Bushmasters break something at the wrong time it all depends on how you have it set up and how you run it. For the average shooter a good commercial AR variant will last them a lifetime if you shoot a lot and tend to be rough on your gear a mil spec may be best. It all depends on you.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  7. #22
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    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...ns.-(pic-heavy)

    This is the link to the rifle and how it performed, can't wait to get mine. It is simply amazing what this rifle went through and never missed a beat.
    The M4 and the AK twin Rifle Dynamics is building for me will both hopefully be done in time for the S.H.O.T. show and will be available for others to handle before I take delivery when I get home. I gave them a couple of my requirements but other than that told them simply to build two fighting rifles that they would use and left it all up to them.

    That is one advantage of being over here I can order something and not have to worry about how long it takes can't play with it til I get home anyways.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    If you want to shoot an AR on the cheap, get a .22LR kit and some black dog mags.

    You will shoot for less, and save a lot of wear on the gun.

    Save good quality .223 for longer distance shooting and zombies.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    As for any particular gun being crap...run your gun. If it survives, keep it. If it doesn't upgrade it.

    Regardless if it does fine or not, AR's are full of wear parts. Bolts have a life span. Springs need to be replaced.

    A guy with a Colt or Daniel Defense gun that doesn't maintain his gun will end up looking at a guy running a CMMG bargain gun and wonder why his works and the Colt is choking.

    A 2nd tier gun which is well maintained and cleaned will perform better than a top rated gun that hasn't gotten a new spring put in it since it left the factory.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    If you want to shoot an AR on the cheap, get a .22LR kit and some black dog mags.

    You will shoot for less, and save a lot of wear on the gun.

    Save good quality .223 for longer distance shooting and zombies.
    This is what I've done. I've saved so much $$, and able to keep a nice stock of 100 count boxes of .223 Federal 55gr. from Walmart.

    I only have 200rounds of steel cased I keep for the dire of dire scenerios.....last resort type ammo.

    550 .22lr for 15bucks...I can shoot ALL day. Though after shooting all that .22, I'll usually run about five rounds of .223 just to blast the system clean...if it happens to get mucked up from hundreds of .22's going through it.


    I've shot plenty of steel, and 5.56 Nato when I first got it. To see if I had any trouble areas in the carbine (which I got used). All ran, cycled as ammo should. Though I did rebuild the BCG before I shot anything, just for peace of mind since I did get the firearm used.

  11. #26
    Member Array kdydak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    In regards to the OP it depends on how and what type of shooting you are going to do. A little here and there with cleaning in between you should have no issues, a fighting rifle class with 2000 rounds over two or three days yeah you may have some issues.

    The only rifles I have seen that will take the abuse and lack of maintenance associated with this type ammo are those using Fail Zero or similar coated bolts and hammers. The nasty stuff simply does not stick to them. They also have a completely coated Nickel Boron guns which I am using in my M4 build which nothing sticks to. One such gun just completed firing 5000 plus rounds of steel case wolf with no lube, no maintenance and no malfunctions. But you pay a price for that kind of reliability. This does not however cure the polymer sticky mess in the chamber left over from the cases and with enough rounds fired over a short period it will cause malfunctions in some rifles.
    I have taken my POF-415 through Tactical Response FR/AFR. 1500 rounds of brown bear over two days. Then I cleaned and then another 1500 rounds of BB over days 3-4. No isssues. The bolt is chromed. The Bolt Carrier is NP3 and the upper inside is some kind of NP3 like coating. It is a piston gun so that helps keep the crud out of the action as well.

  12. #27
    Member Array J0eyg86's Avatar
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    thanks for all the advise ive thought about getting the .22 conversion kit it sure would be cheeper. I may have to look into that more.
    But with all the replies on here im not as worried as i was about putting steel cased though. thanks

  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array pirate's Avatar
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    The steel in steel cased ammo is far far softer that the steel extractor in your AR. I have been shooting Wolf for years in my AR's with no problems whatsoever, none!.......and this is many many 1000's of rounds. Wolf and other Russian made ammo in dirty and less accurate than quality brass cased US made ammo but the cost savings more than makes up for these issues if you shoot alot. Just do the math. Wolf is more than $100 less per 1000 rounds! After a year or two I can but another Spikes Tactical AR with the money I save......its a no brainer.
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  14. #29
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    kdydak yes piston guns have less of an issue as far as running dirty. I run a SIG 556 for that and other reasons.

    NB, Chrome or other coatings are the way to go to improve reliability on the standard M4 type systems.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Avoid the laquered cases at all costs. It builds up in the chamber causing jams. Other than that, it's up to you: save a few bucks now only to spend it on maintenance and repairs later? I don't worry about the "dirty" part as I always clean firearms after firing. If the costs of reloading is a concern, look into reloading. You'll drop $3-400 initially but will save a bundle later.
    WRT Wolf's the old green lacquered case stuff has not been made for several years, but did tend to melt and adhere to the chamber when warm. However the new Polly stuff shoots as cleanly as any other round you will find although not as accurate as the higher quality ammo, I have cycled thousands of rounds of the stuff with no issues. For the rest of you the grade of steel used is as soft as brass and will not harm your gun or extractor, and anyone that says different is quoting some one else's fallacy.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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