Engaging multiple targets with a 5 shot snub

Engaging multiple targets with a 5 shot snub

This is a discussion on Engaging multiple targets with a 5 shot snub within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; At this point I am about 90 percent sure I am going to promote my SP101 to primary carry. I'm ordering a super tuck this ...

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Thread: Engaging multiple targets with a 5 shot snub

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Engaging multiple targets with a 5 shot snub

    At this point I am about 90 percent sure I am going to promote my SP101 to primary carry. I'm ordering a super tuck this weekend and as soon as I have the extra funds laying around I'll be ordering a set of CT laser grips for it. That being said I have a question about proper technique for engaging multiple bad guys with 5 rounds.

    While we all hope that the bad guy(s) are turning tail and running the second we draw our piece we are smart enough to know that may not happen. Following is the way it plays out in my head. I am hoping someone with some actual training will tell me if I'm on the right track

    1 BG - Fire 2 rounds and check the target

    2 BG's - Fire 2 rounds at each BG and then check the targets. I would not immediately reload as I may need that 5th round to put into a bad guy.

    3 BG's. This is where it get's hairy. Engaging three targets with any weapon is difficult. My inital though was 2-2-1. But then I am empty and have to reload. My second thought was 2-1-1 and check the targets leaving one round in reserve. My third thought was 1-1-1 and check the targets leaving 2 rounds in reserve if needed.

    What's the proper technique?
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...


  2. #2
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    Well, I'm not sure there truly is a proper technique for that.

    My gut instinct says that you would need to prioritize targets, and attempt to eliminate them going from biggest threat to smallest threat. Meaning a guy with a semi-auto shotgun 7 yards away comes before the guy with the revolver 15 yards away.

    Once the ball drops, if you are that out-numbered, your best bet is to try and move to either cover so you can reload and force them to come at you a certain way, or egress, and get the heck out of there.

    I mean, theoretically, if you can wing 5 t-box shots, you can get 5 shots, 5 ended threats, but real life SD is usually a much messier affair than that. But it would depend on the types of hits you make, and how the threats react to those hits as well, there are too many variables to make it a set pattern. And if you try to train to a set pattern, that could have negative consequences if you ever actually encounter this type of scenario, which hopefully none of us do. Take out the biggest threats first, and try to get out of there, is IMHO, the best plan.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    Well, I'm not sure there truly is a proper technique for that.

    My gut instinct says that you would need to prioritize targets, and attempt to eliminate them going from biggest threat to smallest threat. Meaning a guy with a semi-auto shotgun 7 yards away comes before the guy with the revolver 15 yards away.

    Once the ball drops, if you are that out-numbered, your best bet is to try and move to either cover so you can reload and force them to come at you a certain way, or egress, and get the heck out of there.

    I mean, theoretically, if you can wing 5 t-box shots, you can get 5 shots, 5 ended threats, but real life SD is usually a much messier affair than that. But it would depend on the types of hits you make, and how the threats react to those hits as well, there are too many variables to make it a set pattern. And if you try to train to a set pattern, that could have negative consequences if you ever actually encounter this type of scenario, which hopefully none of us do. Take out the biggest threats first, and try to get out of there, is IMHO, the best plan.
    Sorry, I should have thrown that in. My first plan of action is always going to be to get out of dodge unless I am at home where the course of action will be to get to the 12 gauge. I also consider finding cover kind of a given. The last thing I want to do is stick around and have a shootout. Prioritizing targets is a good point though. It also makes sense not to train to a set pattern.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  4. #4
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    Getting out of dodge should be everyone's plan, unless there is a viable reason not to (i.e., police duties, military duties, physical impairment that prevents it), and I figured it was in your plan, but wanted to make sure. You would be surprised how many people forget about things like finding cover when they get in a gunfight, target fixation and all that stuff.

    Prioritizing is a lot easier for me to do in my job than as a civilian carrying a firearm, because the ranges are larger, and weapons systems clearly different. But I do think that is can be applied to the civilian side of things as well. The distance isn't going to be as much of a factor, and their weapon, and angle they are shooting at you from (i.e., if someone is in front of you, and someone to the side, it usually doesn't make much sense to turn, shoot the guy to the side, then turn back and shoot the guy to the front, when you can make it simpler by shooting the BG in front first.)

    I think if you have the ability to try out scenarios with some reactive targets it could be beneficial for you, even if it is say 3 targets set up at different distances, at different angles, with like a balloon in the COM area of each. It might give you an idea about how to think outside the box in order to figure this out.

    Also, if you start shooting, and they stick around, they would be more determined than the majority of BG's.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    With a single oponent, why not 3 or 4 shots initially?
    With multiples of equal threat, boarding house rules. Everybody gets firsts befor anybody gets seconds.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Engage the same way you would with a semi. I would do 2 shots per bad guy, reload then repeat as directed until the threat as ended.
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Engage to disengage. Shoot the nearest threat, then the second if you have too. You should always be moving, and never static. Only hits count here. Also you should learn to minimize your body to the threat as you fire. These are real survival techniques. Distance and cover are always your friends.

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    The entire premise of this thread is wrong.

    The question should not be "How do I engage multiple targets with a 5 shot revolver?"

    The question is "How do I run the gun so as to maintain a cadence of fire that is as close to constant as possible?"

    If you aren't doing reload drills with snap caps and speed loaders...start now.

    I don't even carry a J-frame, but sitting in front of me as I watch my cats fight are a S&W M49 and 2 speed loaders filled with snap caps. Dryfire with a coin on the front sight to learn trigger control...and when the coin falls off you are out of ammo (1 shot or 12 shots...just keep dryfiring as long as you have the coin balanced) and do a speed reload.

    Learn your gun.
    Shoot your gun.

    The rest will come.

    (Sorry if I'm not directly addressing your issue..)

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Are all 3 BGs armed? With guns? Already drawn? Every situation is different. Hard to tell. The immediate threat is the one you have to stop by whatever means. 3 guys armed with guns inside of 6 feet and they're all drawn...the capacity of your weapon really isn't going to matter. They're not going to stand there and let you take turns putting 2 in each of them. Stick and move. I personally like the 1 a piece before seconds deal, but circumstances are just going to dictate your approach. Practice a lot!!! Get a S&W 442 for your left hand and you can shoot two at a time, approaching from two directions even. I'd rather have 5 shots in each hand than 10 shots in one (that with a failure turns into none after that). I like the 442 in my left hand even if I have a semi in the other. Just something to think about.

    Example: You're at a coin operated spray car wash. A truck drives up and some rough dudes get out. They start hassling you about whatever. You're standing at your drivers door and let's say one of them pulls out a knife and has a buddy behind him and they are towards the back of your car. Another one comes around the corner and is approaching from the front of your car with a bat. You have one gun but they approach from 2 directions and you're hemmed in. Nice time to have 2 firearms.
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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Once you shoot the 1st guy, the other two will more likely be running. If they aren't, the 3rd one will be once you shoot the 2nd guy, or just do a quick reload ... after getting behind some cover preferrably.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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    I'm with Guantes - boarding house rules, assuming equal threat levels.

    Beyond that, keep shooting until they, not you, think they're out of the fight
    Smitty
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    G&G beat me to it.

    Each one gets one, reengage as needed. As Mitchell said also practice so that the one they get is the one that puts them down. Reload quickly and often if you are not shooting it you should be feeding it.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  13. #13
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    Fire and maneuver! Engage the deadliest threat first, and then maybe the second threat as well. But don't just stand there and be static while trying to engage everyone. Fire and maneuver.

    Also, it would be a good time to be employing your BUG.

    It is highly unlikely everyone is going to want to stick around to try and catch your bullets. You engage one or two and then make a bee-line towards cover, or anywhere besides where you are standing, you'll likely not have many of the remainder want to pursue you. And if they do... well maybe you should have kept that hi-cap semi-auto.

    Also when your gun starts to bark, most people are not going to focus on whether you have a 5 shot SP-101 or a 6 shot Speed Six, and some may not even know whether the bullets are coming from a revolver or an automatic. Identifying your weapon, just isn't a high priority of survival at that point. At least for most thugs.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    +1 Bark'n. Stick and move. Stick again as necessary. Keep movin'.

    Trade M&P40c for a S&W 340PD in .357 mag and carry it in your weak pocket or ankle. Your speed loaders will work in both.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Rollo, the more I think about this, the more I think we all have a tendancy to overthink things. There is probably very little difference in the use of the two different handgun styles in this roll.
    When dealing with probabilities and chances, multiple opponets give us a problem that no one type of handgun is going be the answer to. It looks good in the movies, one on three, with the good guy taking out 3 armed attackers before even one of the three can shoot back, but the reality is it's not that easy.

    It's kind of like a knife fight. You have to expect you will probably get cut. You go into a situation doing the best you can, but also being realistic about the probabilaties.
    Looking at it like this, the situation will dictate your actions, and the revolver or auto will be used the same way.

    I like what Guantes said, it's faster to give all one hit first, and then they get second helpings as needed. This seems like the prudent choice.

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