Duty weapon used in School Shooting - Page 2

Duty weapon used in School Shooting

This is a discussion on Duty weapon used in School Shooting within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I vote no. Would the parent be neglegent if the 17 year old kid took the car keys without permission and intentionaly drove into a ...

View Poll Results: Should the father be charged with negligence

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  • Yes- he was negligent

    17 39.53%
  • No- he has suffered enough

    8 18.60%
  • No- he did nothing wrong

    18 41.86%
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Thread: Duty weapon used in School Shooting

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    I vote no. Would the parent be neglegent if the 17 year old kid took the car keys without permission and intentionaly drove into a crowded area? You can take all the preventive measures you want. If someone is determined to comit murder followed by suicide, and does not let anyone know of their intentions how can you hold the parent responsible.

    I do not remember who made the post not long ago and I will probably botch their wise saying. "It is a sickness of the head, not the hand".
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato


  2. #17
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    Holding someone else criminally responsible for the actions of another is a new concept that has only been around for the last few decades.
    It is an anti gun thought process used by the anti's when their actions to ban firearms, proved futile. Since they couldn't get bans passed, they went to the next best thing and tried to ban behavior.
    So, they demonize the tool and anyone that owns it and they go after the one that provided it, in spite of the fact that there may have been NO wrongdoing on the part of the owner other than to own a tool that they hate.

    Its a very flawed and immoral process that they proliferate and they attempt to pass it off as normal behavior...a thought process that would encourage the legal action of someone spilling coffee in their lap and suing the resturaunt because it was hot.

    No locking devices were mentioned. It is entirely possible that none were required, thus, no law was broken.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  3. #18
    Member Array GHFLRLTD's Avatar
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    Is there a media posting that indicates that the gun was the father's, and that he was a LEO. The midget brains at the NY Times Editorial Board want to blame the "gun lobby" for this obvious Active Shooter event.
    George H. Foster
    Orlando, Florida

  4. #19
    Member Array mandalitten's Avatar
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    States have different laws, and I am not sure what the law is in NE. In RI there is a Safe Storage law related to children under the age of 16. It's not unlawful to leave it unlocked, but if someone were to be hurt, you can/will be charged.
    A person who stores or leaves on premises under his or her control a loaded firearm and who knows or reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the child's parent or guardian, and the child obtains access to the firearm and causes injury to himself or herself or any other person with the firearm, is guilty of the crime of criminal storage of a firearm and, upon conviction, shall be fined not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both. For purposes of this section, a "child" is defined as any person who has not attained the age of sixteen (16) years.
    There is a little more to it.
    http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statute...11-47-60.1.HTM

    In MA, you are required to lock up the firearm when you are not in possession of it. Very few states have laws like that and most gun owners are against laws like this since they don't feel they should have to run to the safe and unlock their firearm in a potential life threatening situation and possibly screw up the combination on the safe.

    I am not sure how the laws are in NE, but this is something the OP should know or find out since he/she is from NE. Everybody should know all their state laws related to firearms in my opinion. Depending on where the firearm even if it was not locked in this case may also determine whether the father will be charged. Regardless of whether he will be criminally charged, he can still face a civil lawsuit for possibly being negligent when storing the firearm.

  5. #20
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    I voted NO, he did nothing wrong.

    LEO status doesn't even come into it for me. This is a sad event for sure, but the father is NOT responsible for the actions of his "child". Someone posted that he was 17, if this is true, the only blame lies with him.

    I purposely leave guns unlocked in my home in case someone else need to use them when I'm not around. I am not negligent. My children (7, 5, 3) can NOT access the unlocked guns, but my wife can and should be able to. Who else is going to protect my family when I'm gone?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array Dragman's Avatar
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    If the kid was old enough to drive he was old enough to do what he was gonna do! the father shouldn't suffer anymore than he already has. If this kid broke into your house and stole your night stand gun and did it should you be charged???
    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandalitten View Post

    I am not sure how the laws are in NE, but this is something the OP should know or find out since he/she is from NE. Everybody should know all their state laws related to firearms in my opinion. Depending on where the firearm even if it was not locked in this case may also determine whether the father will be charged. Regardless of whether he will be criminally charged, he can still face a civil lawsuit for possibly being negligent when storing the firearm.
    We do have laws pertaining to safe storage of weapon in Nebraska. The detective did not safely store his weapon.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragman View Post
    If the kid was old enough to drive he was old enough to do what he was gonna do! the father shouldn't suffer anymore than he already has. If this kid broke into your house and stole your night stand gun and did it should you be charged???
    If they broke into my house and stole my gun of course I shouldn't be charged. If I leave a gun available for a minor to use I am partly responsible for the minors actions.

    If the father wasn't a cop I think he would probably be charged for his negligence.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenCal View Post
    There was a case last year where a teenager successfully thwarted an armed robbery in his home while defending his younger sister & himself. The teenager used his father's duty rifle, shooting 1 suspect while another fled. The Father of the teenager is a LEO. The firearms were stored in a safe, but the teenager had access as granted by the father for just such an emergency.

    There were no charges of child endangerment or negligent unsecured access to firearms against the father, even though the teenager used his father's DUTY rifle.

    Therefore, both teenage sons had access to their father's duty weapon, but one committed a terrible crime and the other was a hero.

    If the law is blind, then both fathers would be negligent no matter the outcome, due to access to the duty weapon.

    Also, in either case this was not a negligent discharge, both teenage sons willfully opened fire with specific intent.

    I reference negligent discharge, because of accidental shootings by kids with access to firearms that are unsecured.

    I have no idea whether that LEO is a good person or not. Some kids turn out bad despite their upbringing & vice versa.

    Just food for thought.



    ^^^^^I voted NO^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    For what CenCal wrote.

    I don't think there could be a better rationale that this.
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

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  10. #25
    Member Array mandalitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    We do have laws pertaining to safe storage of weapon in Nebraska. The detective did not safely store his weapon.
    Thank you for clarifying that.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    If they broke into my house and stole my gun of course I shouldn't be charged. If I leave a gun available for a minor to use I am partly responsible for the minors actions.
    If the father wasn't a cop I think he would probably be charged for his negligence.





    You obviously aren't looking at this from a logical standpoint.

    Two firearms, left out, and then stolen and used in a crime.

    If you feel the father should be charged, then why shouldn't you.?

    Just because it wasn't your minor who did it is irrelevant.

    Stop trying to belt-feed the anti gun crowd any more ammunition than they already have

    No one should be charged
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

    Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn

  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array Dragman's Avatar
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    Just an addition from my point of view. This Kid wasn't a minor!!!! if he had just shot some people in cold blood and not committed suicide the state I am sure would charge him as an adult! So why if the state can make that determination and say he was resposible do we then double dip and say MINOR and wanna charge the parent too???
    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    You obviously aren't looking at this from a logical standpoint.

    Two firearms, left out, and then stolen and used in a crime.

    If you feel the father should be charged, then why shouldn't you.?

    Just because it wasn't your minor who did it is irrelevant.

    Stop trying to belt-feed the anti gun crowd any more ammunition than they already have

    No one should be charged
    First only one gun was taken by the shooter.

    Second, if I did the same thing I think I should be held responsible.

    Third, I'm not trying to "belt feed" any antis, I think that LEOs should be held accountable to the same laws we citizens are.

  14. #29
    Member Array mandalitten's Avatar
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    This Kid wasn't a minor!!!!
    I thought one post said he was 17. I would think anyone under the age of 18 is considered a minor, but I don't know what the definition is in NE in this case. rammerjammer, do you know what the definition is in NE?

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    In Nebraska you're considered a minor til you're 18 but at age 19 you get some further abilities like being able to sign contracts and such.

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