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Help me choose the proper Caliber Rifle (need to order asap)

This is a discussion on Help me choose the proper Caliber Rifle (need to order asap) within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Fitch Use 150g ammo with a MV of 3,000 fps, zero the rifle at 200 yards, and Ur good to go. Except ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitch View Post
    Use 150g ammo with a MV of 3,000 fps, zero the rifle at 200 yards, and Ur good to go.

    Except that anything a 150gr 30.06 load can do, a 130 gr .270 Winchester load can do better, and more efficiently.

    To get close to ( but not even equal ) the ballistic efficiency of the 130 gr .270, one actually has to upgrade to heavier 165 gr bullets in the .30-06

    A good example are the highly efficient Hornady SST and Interbond bullets. Their 130 gr .270 bullet has a ballistic coefficient of .460

    In comparison, the 165 gr .30 caliber bullet has a b.c. of .447, and the 150 gr is down to a b.c. of only .415

    .


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    That could be a list of best varmint hunting scopes for hunting small game. For Deer there is certainly no need for that kind of high magnification at normal hunting distances.

    Those scopes are also rather large, bulky, and heavy. I certainly would never want to have a big game rifle with such a huge scope as some of those on that list are.

    The smaller Bushnell Elite 2.5-16x 42mm version would indeed be a great hunting scope. It is just over a pound in weight. And while at $750 is expensive, it is not outrageous like some of the others listed. And it would not be too bulky. Your #1 scope the Swarovski 5-30x50 Z6 30mm Riflescope costs $2,200 street price. That is dramatically more than what a Model 700 XCR rifle costs.

    I own 3 of the Nikon Monarch 4-16x 42mm scopes. They have all the power one needs for big game hunting. Bud's Gun Shop.com has them for only $350 Even their 5-20x 44mm model is only $425

    Heck, I've killed marmots the size of a large cat at 400 yards using 16x magnification.

    .
    I agree with your post. That is why I recommended the OP the Bushnell Elite 6500. The top 10 rifle scopes list was selected based on my recent research for a scope that I bought recently (Bushnell Elite 6500 4.5-30x50mm - $729.95) for a new Remington 700 SPS Tactical rifle chambered in .308W. I am very pleased with the scope's quality considering the price and solid construction. I agree that spending $1,000 - 2,000 on a Leupold or Swarovski scope is insane considering the price of the Remington 700 XCR rifle. I was just pointing out which are the best scopes I have found on the market and where the Bushnell stacks up against them. I also agree that the Nikon Monarch is a great scope and the magnification you suggested for the Bushnell Elite 6500 is about perfect for the OP's needs.
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    The 30-06 with a 3X9 would be an excellent choice.
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  4. #19
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    There's nothing in the lower 48 states that the 30-06 won't take care of--period. If I were to own one and one only caliber, it'd be the 30-06.

    Deer (or anything else) don't care whether the gun is black or black/silver.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    Except that anything a 150gr 30.06 load can do, a 130 gr .270 Winchester load can do better, and more efficiently.

    To get close to ( but not even equal ) the ballistic efficiency of the 130 gr .270, one actually has to upgrade to heavier 165 gr bullets in the .30-06

    A good example are the highly efficient Hornady SST and Interbond bullets. Their 130 gr .270 bullet has a ballistic coefficient of .460

    In comparison, the 165 gr .30 caliber bullet has a b.c. of .447, and the 150 gr is down to a b.c. of only .415

    .
    Seriously, are we now going to start a rifle caliber war? None of what you are saying means a darn thing in the real world. Both or those cartridges will shoot right through both sides of a deer. The 30-06 and the .270 are BOTH fantastic and have the track record to prove it.

    To the OP. I suggest any major rifle cartridge will be able to kill elk size game (with proper bullet placement) way out past 500 yards. Hitting the right spot way out there is tough though so I agree with keeping shots under 300 yds. The cartridges are capable of more than we as shooters are.

    I like the .280 Remington, 30-06, 270 and the 7mm Remington mag. Any one of these will be great for you.
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  6. #21
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    Neither the 130 grain .277" bullet nor the 150 grain .308" bullet are all there is to the .270 or the .30-06.

    One will come to grief trying to compare ballistic coefficients of available .277" bullets to available .308" bullets if a "ballistic coefficient war" is in the offing.
    http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.c...2&displayAll=1

    Besides which, ballistic coefficients aren't terribly important in the hunting field at reasonable game killing ranges. I've shot in competition out to 600 yards but consider 300 yards to be about tops for shots at game.
    http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=1421


    "I like the .280 Remington, 30-06, 270 and the 7mm Remington mag. Any one of these will be great for you."


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  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Slim_45's Avatar
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    Ok put my 700 XCR in law-away tonight, i did get the .30-06 w/silver barrel,bolt,trigger.....
    I also put a Leupold 3-9x40 VXII scope (w/ LR Duplex reticle), mounts, rings & some awesome Flip-up len's covers All made by Leupold & All in a "matte black"
    The silver scope did not match the silver of the rifle & mounts at all (would have had 3 shades of silver so i went with Black instead.....
    I still am not 100% sure on my "scope power choice" & my dealer will let me change it if i want (wont be able to get out till after taxes anyway) so keep your suggestions coming please..........
    Also if anyone knows how i can find out for sure what the capable killing & target shooting distance is with the .30-06 i would appreciate it & about how far out a 3-9 scope is effective? Iam sure that somewhere this has to be charted i just am not sure where to look......Thanks
    Maybe i can just call Remington & Leupold themselves to get these answers
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  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Silver base and rings on a matte black scope??? That is an unusual combo. Are you sure that you will like the way that will look?

    I would return them, and get a set of matte black Burris Signature Rings and their one piece Remington 700 base, like I have in that photo I posted.

    The synthetic inserts in the Signature Rings makes mounting a scope so very easy. It is way superior to Leupold Rings.

    Checkout this video to see some of the advanced features:

    http://www.burrisoptics.com/sigrings.html

    .



    .

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim_45 View Post
    Ok put my 700 XCR in law-away tonight, i did get the .30-06 w/silver barrel,bolt,trigger.....
    I also put a Leupold 3-9x40 VXII scope (w/ LR Duplex reticle), mounts, rings & some awesome Flip-up len's covers All made by Leupold & All in a "matte black"
    The silver scope did not match the silver of the rifle & mounts at all (would have had 3 shades of silver so i went with Black instead.....
    I still am not 100% sure on my "scope power choice" & my dealer will let me change it if i want (wont be able to get out till after taxes anyway) so keep your suggestions coming please..........
    Also if anyone knows how i can find out for sure what the capable killing & target shooting distance is with the .30-06 i would appreciate it & about how far out a 3-9 scope is effective? Iam sure that somewhere this has to be charted i just am not sure where to look......Thanks
    Maybe i can just call Remington & Leupold themselves to get these answers
    The scope choice you made is fantastic! A 3x9 has PLENTY of power, in fact it's probably more than you'll ever need. Leupold is top notch too.

    Oh, don't listen to what some other folks on here are saying. YOU decide what colors you like best. Enjoy your fantastic new rifle!
    I haven’t heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

  10. #25
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    One will come to grief trying to compare ballistic coefficients of available .277" bullets to available .308" bullets if a "ballistic coefficient" war is in the offing.
    http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.c...2&displayAll=1
    No, that is not at all true, as the discussion here is in the context of Whitetail Deer hunting. That is the purpose the rifle has been bought for. So the discussion is regarding bullet designs and bullet weights suitable for deer hunting. And that would typically mean 130 or 150 gr bullets in .270, and 150 and 165 gr bullets in .30 caliber. Heavyweight high coefficient .308 caliber target bullets are totally irrelevant to this discussion. I suppose one could go deer hunting using some 180 and 200 gr .30-06 ammo. But then recoil is going to go up, impact velocity will be lower, and the trajectory will definitely be worse.

    I admit the differences are not that great. But the face is that for purposes of deer hunting, the .270 Winchester is going to shoot flatter, hit at higher velocity, and recoil less than a .30-06.

    P.S. - I grew up as a kid in the 60's reading Jack O'Connor. So I was brainwashed on the .270 at a very young age from reading his books and magazine articles.

    .

  11. #26
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    Seriously Lance, let it go.
    I haven’t heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

  12. #27
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    Hey Slim;

    You picked a great all around choice for North American hunting right there in that rifle and scope combination. I've never owed a Remington Model 700 but have shot others' Model 700s often. I have a lot of respect for them. Remington barrels seem to be very good and are consistently accurate. Both my brother-in-law and a good friend have Remington 700s that really shoot well from the bench and both have bagged a lot of big game. One is a .30-06 and one is a .308.

    You will have to take the back seat to no one around the camp fire when cartridge discussions come up, if you bring a .30-06 to the hunt. It is always appropriate and always respected. I'm not much in favor of shooting game over 300 yards with any rifle and 400 yards is really stretching it. The .30-06, along with any of a host of cartridges, will kill very effectively at a much greater distance than 400 yards and your scope will be right at home at such ranges. All it takes is good hits. There's the rub. It comes down to the skills of the rifleman. Equipment can only assist so much.

    For fun, I used to do little write-ups for a defunct forum and called them "cartridge discussions." I later posted a few here on Defensive Carry, Here's the one on the .30-06 which sums up my feelings for the cartridge.

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...-06&highlight=



    "(one of them is a 1953 Winchester Model 70 with a 3-9x40 Leupold VX-II that has the LR duplex reticle)."

    Mornin' Fitch;

    That's a grand rifle/scope combination for the fellow who wants to do everything well with a single rifle.

    My old favorite .30-06 is also a Winchester Model 70 from 1953. It is topped with a Leupold M8 6X scope. Pre-64 Winchester Model 70s are so gratifying to own and use.
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  13. #28
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
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    OP already has a 30-30... which he says is a max 100 yd rifle.... I'm surprised no one has jumped all over that

    Edit:
    Found a great table comparing game weights to caliber and distance.

    http://www.chuckhawks.com/game_range_caliber.htm

    Here is how to interpret the table, using the 30-30 Winchester as an example. If the 30-30 shooting a 150 grain bullet at 2390 fps is an optimum mule deer caliber at 205 yards, it is more than sufficient at shorter distances. Conversely, this does not mean that the 150 grain 30-30 bullet will not kill a 200 pound deer at 225 yards; it just means that it is past its optimum range for that size game at ranges beyond 205 yards. If most of your anticipated shots at deer will be between 50-150 yards, with maybe an occasional long shot out to about 200 yards, the 30-30 with the 150 grain bullet would be an excellent choice. But if the majority of your anticipated shots will be around 200 yards, with occasional opportunities at considerably longer range, another caliber might be a better choice.
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  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim_45 View Post
    Ok put my 700 XCR in law-away tonight, i did get the .30-06 w/silver barrel,bolt,trigger.....
    I also put a Leupold 3-9x40 VXII scope (w/ LR Duplex reticle), mounts, rings & some awesome Flip-up len's covers All made by Leupold & All in a "matte black"
    That scope/cartridge/rifle combination is about perfect for where you are hunting or any place from the Atlantic coast to the edge of the western plains. If the animals are moving and in close, you don't want more than 3X or you won't be able to find them in the scope quickly enough. At 500 yards you can see and hit a deer at 9X. I suspect you will get few if any shots farther than that in the MI woods. Most of mine when I hunted there in my youth were less than 100 yards.

    The problems with making shots beyond 500 yards won't be your scope. They will be your ability to read the wind and figure out the drop. The point blank range for the rifle on deer will be around 250 yards. Beyond that you will have to use the reticle to get drop and estimate windage. Beyond 500 yards things get much harder very quickly.

    Ya done good! Now get it to the range and make friends with it. You are gonna love this setup. I see lots of meat in the freezer ...

    We need to see a picture of this beauty.

    This is my 58 year old .30-06 with it's 3-9x40 VX-II with LR duplex reticle:



    Fitch
    Last edited by Fitch; January 14th, 2011 at 11:47 AM. Reason: Added picture.
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  15. #30
    Member Array Rasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim_45 View Post
    Ok put my 700 XCR in law-away tonight, i did get the .30-06 w/silver barrel,bolt,trigger.....
    I also put a Leupold 3-9x40 VXII scope
    I still am not 100% sure on my "scope power choice" & my dealer will let me change it if i want (wont be able to get out till after taxes anyway) so keep your suggestions coming please..........
    Also if anyone knows how i can find out for sure what the capable killing & target shooting distance is with the .30-06 i would appreciate it & about how far out a 3-9 scope is effective? Iam sure that somewhere this has to be charted i just am not sure where to look......Thanks
    Maybe i can just call Remington & Leupold themselves to get these answers
    Your choice is fine both on the scope and the cartridge. A 3-9 is all youll ever need for hunting. heres what I have in my stable- they all are used here in MI and all have been used in WY to take Mullies and Pronghorn yardage up to 450+

    .308 autoloader with a 3-9
    .30-06 autoloader with a 3-9
    7 mag bolt with a 3-9 w/bdc built in
    .300 mag bolt with a 3-9 widefield

    Also have a .44 carbine with a 2-10 used only here in MI.
    My 7 is my go-to gun and I have no problem trying shots out to 500-600 yrds, but Ive also hade it since 1980. I also handload for everything above the only time I shoot store bought is for fun and I want the brass, that being said I encorage you to get into hand loading it cuts ammo prices drastically. The start up for that can be high but ebay and craigs list can be a great tool to get things cheaper. Example a box of high end ammo for my 7 can cost upwards of $40 at a box store-I can load it my self for $10-15.

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