Gun-Shots.net - Ballistics

This is a discussion on Gun-Shots.net - Ballistics within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Preface: Many people do not understand that when you load a round (not a 'bullet'), shell or with blackpowder a sabot or ball projectile into ...

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Thread: Gun-Shots.net - Ballistics

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Gun-Shots.net - Ballistics

    Preface:

    Many people do not understand that when you load a round (not a 'bullet'), shell or with blackpowder a sabot or ball projectile into a a firearm that there is very specific and detailed math that is relevant to _everything_ about the experience and result of firing that gun as from the moment the hammer hits the primer up to and including shooter felt recoil as well as down range performance and target penetration characteristics.

    This is science not guesstimates by trial and try again error.
    Below is one of very many resources out there detailing as much.

    I am motivated to provide this because last weekend while instructing a Basic Hunter Education course a fellow instructor who is senior by experience as an instructor and who is very much senior by experience as having been a professional hunter (paid to hunt by various industry companys including major ammunition and gun manufacturers) responded to a query by a fellow instructor having experienced an issue of function by being unable to discuss just at a cursory level the specific of ballistics as related to the rounds family in general.

    This struck me as being odd, and worrisome.

    If I want to know how a given round, loading and projectile is going to work at X distance against Y type target (in this case it was a bear and the round was .308), then I want facts not ehh try again next time with something else response.

    A common response this is but to my mind and view; Not Acceptable.

    ~~~

    The best firearm in the world will perform horribly if not fed equally good ammunition. A well-designed round can significantly increase the accuracy and stopping power of any caliber bullet.

    Ballistics is the science of how ammunition operates. Ballistics is a science which is important for soldiers, law enforcement, hunters, and anyone who seeks to protect their life, their home, and their family.

    The study of ballistics can help any shooter to achieve better results from their rifle, pistol, or shotgun.

    * Ballistics Information
    * Ballistics Information from Ammunition Manufacturers
    * Ballistics Information from the United States Army
    * Wound Ballistics
    * Ammunition Forensics
    * Books on Ballistics

    http://www.gun-shots.net/ballistics-ammunition.shtml
    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Interesting site; thanks for the link.

    However, you are never going to know with precision how a given projectile is going to perform at X distance against Y target. There are just too many variables.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
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  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    You can though using math and knowledge estimate performance very closely to actual by having understanding of variables and associated math.

    We have been doing so for a very long time be it toward competition shooting (See for example the 'Sandy Hook' trials of the late 1800s), hunting and sporting as well as military shooters too since the days of the Civil War sharpshooters forward to modern as current shooters of same.

    A shot as actual might be off by an inch or less or penetration greater/lesser by some degree of same as estimated to actual; But very much with factual figures and again understanding of math as well as physics it is very possible to estimate functionally to a high degree of accuracy.

    Otherwise shooters wouldn't be able to take pirates at distance while shooting from a skiff towed in water over rough seas with one shot/first shot accuracy or to engage targets at distances over one mile using a 5.56 caliber projectile and hunting from distances of 800 yds. and greater again with first shot/one shot accuracy and functional ability to put holes in beings so as to stop them DRT cold.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Those fellows who take the shots at pirates ect, have had the advantage of both ballistics tables, and trial and error on their side. My understanding is that when a military sniper rifle is brought into the fold, there are specific rounds built for that gun based on that guns ability. One rifle might like a 150.2 grain piece of lead with 31.75 grains of powder with a OAL of X, whereas the next rifle down the line might like a 149.9 grain bullet with 32.15 grains of powder and an OAL of X-.005.

    Once the trial and error of figuring out exactly what combination that particular rifle shoots best with, specific shells are built for that specific gun. Deviating from that recipe results in less than optimum performance.

    Recently when watching a show about (I believe currently) the longest sniper shot taken at a range of over 1.5 miles, the Canadian (again if memory serves me) soldier ran out of his ammo and had to switch to US ammo which he stated was much hotter than his own countries ammo. It took about 4 or 5 shots to dispatch the Afghan fighter while he dialed in the gun to the ammo.

    Understanding ballistics can involve a lot of math the some aren't able to do, and some trial and error that folks with comon sense can most likely understand.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
    www.ddchl.com
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Yes, 'trial and error; toward ten ring bullseye exactness.
    But it is math and factoring that gets one in the neighborhood and on paper, efficiently.

    One could try for a week with trail and error to get done in a few hours to a day where one can go with math & factoring.
    This applys to most everything be it shooting guns, rockets into space or what have you.

    Never mind as I'd noted in my OP; Guesstimation.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Those fellows who take the shots at pirates ect, have had the advantage of both ballistics tables, and trial and error on their side. My understanding is that when a military sniper rifle is brought into the fold, there are specific rounds built for that gun based on that guns ability. One rifle might like a 150.2 grain piece of lead with 31.75 grains of powder with a OAL of X, whereas the next rifle down the line might like a 149.9 grain bullet with 32.15 grains of powder and an OAL of X-.005.
    Certainly not for "regular" snipers. We used standard M118 Special Ball for our M24s, and used de-linked M20 API-T in our M107s. There is simply no way that "big Army" snipers could ever get such specialized ammunition in the supply chain. I can't speak to the very, very high-end Special Operations Forces, but it just seems unlikely considering how many rounds they put down range.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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