Man claiming self defense is charged with murder, eight months after the shooting - Page 2

Man claiming self defense is charged with murder, eight months after the shooting

This is a discussion on Man claiming self defense is charged with murder, eight months after the shooting within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This from article;; Police say witnesses saw Arsenault approach Crist as he went to his car and that’s when Crist pulled out a gun. Crist ...

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 28 of 28
Like Tree5Likes

Thread: Man claiming self defense is charged with murder, eight months after the shooting

  1. #16
    VIP Member
    Array oneshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    +42.893612,-082.710236 , Mi.
    Posts
    8,376
    This from article;;

    Police say witnesses saw Arsenault approach Crist as he went to his car and that’s when Crist pulled out a gun. Crist allegedly yelled at Arsenault to stop and then fired several times when he did not.

    How does the incident transpire, with witnesses present and all, and the guy still gets arrested and will be run through the mill??

    DA is a Fool.
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

    Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn


  2. #17
    RKM
    RKM is offline
    Distinguished Member Array RKM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,838
    From what's reported in the link, it sounds like self defense to me. But who really knows.

  3. #18
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    I read the deceased persons criminal record too at VGOF forum, and posted in Post #14 above.

    The problem is, if the defendant (Charles Christ) did not have that knowledge at the time of the shooting, it can not be introduced in court and the jury will never hear about the deceased (Greg Arsenault) prior bad acts. I am not an attorney but I believe it falls under the 401 Exclusionary Rule.

    However, the prosecutor certainly had access to Greg Arsenault's prior criminal record and could have used that information when deciding whether or not to file the murder charges. Prosecutors do have that discretion.

    Which makes one wonder what exactly was the motivation to go ahead and file the murder charge.

    It could be that the deceased (Greg Arsenault) may not have had a weapon (knife) in his hand at the time, and thus Mr. Christ was essentially shooting an unarmed man who was just trying to bully him.

    While the newspaper report states police recovered two knives from the body at the hospital, there was no knife or weapon recovered at the scene. Which allows one to conclude he did not have the knife out and threatening at the time he was shot.

    It is very frustrating trying to dissect these kinds of cases to gather useful information for your own benefit when the facts are so limited.

    The best way to learn is to do your own research and delve into actual case law and trial transcripts after the case if over.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulf Coast of Florida
    Posts
    9,408
    Details of if he contributed to the incident, escalated it, was he trying to leave, did he retreat, did he have any other choice??? Lots of questions and details not provided that could make a difference in VA.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  5. #20
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    I must say, reading the posts from Mr. Christ's (the defendant) alleged "best friend" (RTBA) on the VGOF forum, gives me some pause as to the "character" of all parties involved, if not as to their level of "common sense" regarding who they associate with.

    One thing I wonder is just how well schooled the defendant (Mr. Christ) was regarding all the nuances and aspects of lethal force issues and law.

    I really would like to know for certain if the reason for the murder charge stems from whether or not the deceased had a knife in his hand and was displaying a weapon at the time he was shot.

    I harp a lot about shooting unarmed people and yet time and time again, many people chime in with all kinds of reasons why they feel justified in doing so. "Well, if he gets a hold of my gun during a fist fight", or "I could die from one punch to the head" and a myriad of other reasons. I'm not talking about people where there is an obvious disparity of force. Senior citizens, people with handicaps and medical conditions, pacemakers, etc. I'm talking about otherwise, young healthy people of the approximate same age and physical condition as the unarmed person they intend to shoot.

    The courts generally take a dim view at shooting and killing "unarmed" individuals, and generally don't see such things as a black eye, a bloody nose, or a broken tooth as grave bodily harm, crippling injury, or even potentially lethal. Not enough to warrant taking the other persons life over it with a firearm.

    And again the same goes to the persons prior bad acts. The person threatening you could be out on parole after doing 15 years as a serial rapist and killing two people. Unless you had that knowledge at the time, you can not use that knowledge after the fact as a means to justify your actions at the time. And the prosecutor will make sure the jury never hears about the guys past record you just shot.

    Therefore, it is also in your best interest to know the "moods of the court", and that of the prosecutor in your area. If you know in advance the prosecutor in your area is a real hard case, and very anti-gun and anti-ccw, it would behoove you to keep that in mind when responding to an altercation on the street.

    In my town, I know the prosecutor. I sit with him on committee on the child death review board for my county. When I travel to Kansas City, (my home town) where most of my relatives live, I have kept track of the shootings involving CCW holders. Of which, there have been several to date now, and so far, in all the cases I'm aware of, the prosecutor has always sided with the CCW holder and not filed charges. If any charges have been filed against a CCW holder there, I haven't heard of it yet, or have missed it.

    I feel pretty confident, I'm not going to have a rogue prosecutor come after me on some obscure minutia if I do my part and am involved in a clean case of self defense in my home turf.

    When I travel to St. Louis, I have no idea. I'm not sure of the prosecutor there and keep that in mind when I'm traveling in that area.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,849
    Christ could have gotten in his car, locked the doors and driven off. He had an avenue of flight. He chose to get his gun out of his car, then had time to tell the guy to stop and then shoot him. A car door and window will stop a knife from killing you long enough to drive away and call 911. A DUI is better than a murder charge. IMO he was drunk, pissed off about the altercation and wanted vengeance when he should have gotten in his car and left the scene IMMEDIATELY after the altercation inside the bar. Frankly I am surprised it took the DA a year to go after him.

    Keep in mind this is my view based on what has been written in the story. Any other details may change my POV.
    There's nothing like a funeral to make you feel alive

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    I don't post here anymore...Sorry
    Posts
    2,333
    Too many people want to be the hero shooter...not enough people want to be the well educated, squared away guy who know when and when not to pull the trigger.

    It's more fun to go to tactical classes on HOW to shoot, than it is to get to an Ayoob/Farnam class focusing on when it is and is not lawful to do it, or a force on force class which does scenarios that can be resolved without shooting.

    Ask what are you training for? Don't tell me is "self defense" if all you have been focusing on is lethal force, because that's a solution for a very, very small portion of the situations you will ever face.

    If you aren't able to process a situation in real time through mental filters of your locations use of force laws which you learned from a professional (Not "I looked them up and studied them..." BS because you don't know what you don't know) then you are fooling yourself into believing you are ready.

    This is a craft, and unless you are willing to make a commitment to it, get out.

    Get out now before you screw up.

    If you have more than 1 rifle, 1 shotgun, 1 service caliber/size pistol and 1 compact pistol...and have not done a 16 hour class on the lawful use of force, then I'm sorry to tell you this: You are kidding yourself if you believe you are ready for a use of force incident.

    If that sounds arrogant, elitist or in any way judgmental...guess what? It is, and I don't care.

    Believe me or don't, I also don't care...but walking around with lethal weapons without the proper training on when and when not to use them is the equivalent of giving teenagers the keys to a Porsche, a DMV driver's manual and telling them "Go figure out the rules of the road on your own..."

    When they kill someone driving 156mph down the wrong way of a one way street, you can't claim "But they could have read the driver's manual on the rules of the road...how were they supposed to know at the time they were driving what was and was not the proper thing to do...the situation got a way from them and it's not their fault!"

    Yet...we do that with guns, because right now I promise you that at some point today you will be near a moron carrying a Glock 17 stuffed with Corbon DPX who neither knows how to hit what he aims at, nor when it would be justified to draw and shoot.

    It's disgusting, and makes me sick.

    So...instead of railing about the injustice of someone being wrongfully charged - get trained and make sure you aren't.
    deadguy, Bark'n, Luis50 and 1 others like this.

  8. #23
    mkh
    mkh is offline
    Distinguished Member Array mkh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Foxhole somewhere in Jacksonville
    Posts
    1,643
    +1

    Very well stated.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    I don't post here anymore...Sorry
    Posts
    2,333
    YouTube - ‪Tactical Response - THE FIGHT - Force on Force Scenarios‬‏

    Tactical Response's class "The Fight".

    Register on getoffthex.com and read the reviews of this class & see the photos.

    LiveCloud - Powered by LiveCloud

    LiveCloud - Powered by LiveCloud

    LiveCloud - Powered by LiveCloud

  10. #25
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    ct
    Posts
    1,961
    sometimes it is as simple as--follow the money

    the state--which does not have the interests of its citizens 1st and foremost in mind---has $$ in mind
    a defense will exhaust the mans resources, monetarily and emotionally ( and im seeing a divorce lawer in his future--a 2 year legal battle is vicious).
    eventually his mouthpiece, seeing the end of the $$ coming will tell him to "take this deal" its the best your gonna get now.
    --------------------

    me--im planning my retirement around Montana: raising my lonely dental floss
    Arthritis sucks big-big
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    I don't post here anymore...Sorry
    Posts
    2,333
    You wanna pay an instructor $400-$500 or a lawyer $40,000 to $50,000?

    Follow the money? Yeah...it's that simple.

    Hey, claude - Welcome to Defense Associates - Ayoob's comin to town this year.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,492
    Mitchell, I agree with your premise (I know, you don't care).

    I do not think everybody needs formal training to "get it right." I'm not saying it's not worthwhile to get training, there's not a person here who wouldn't benefit from the training you are suggesting. But, common sense will most likely keep someone from suffering the legal ramifications of a bad or questionable shoot, because they wouldn't shoot in the first place.

    This guy is a prime example of someone who might have benefited from training... But even if he had gotten such training, would he have had the common sense to apply it? >>>Story Here<<<.This guy's gonna get a felony rap, if he's convicted. He'll never be able to carry again, and really, that's a good thing for the carry community, in my mind..

    I'm sure in the heat of the moment, he mistook the screwdriver for a knife. Might have been an okay (if not completely "righteous") shoot at that point... But then, he decided to shoot a fleeing suspect. No common sense. Or at least none that was ingrained enough to keep his testosterone in check. Superhero Syndrome.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    777
    Self defense or Murder? Who knows.
    Alcohol, taverns & weapons - bad combination? Yes.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

charles christ
,
charles crist murder
,
charles crist murder trial
,
charles crist newport news
,
charles shane christ
,

charles shane crist

,
charles shane crist court date
,
charles shane crist trial
,
claiming self defense after shooting a person
,
murders in newport news, va. in 2003
,
newportnews wvec.com
,
taurus smith of newport news,va
Click on a term to search for related topics.