First Shot is the Most Important; Right?

This is a discussion on First Shot is the Most Important; Right? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'd rather have 6 accurate shots than 15 less-than-accurate shots, unless the accuracy difference is pretty small. If 6 aren't enough, chances are a handgun ...

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Thread: First Shot is the Most Important; Right?

  1. #16
    Member Array sevesteen's Avatar
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    I'd rather have 6 accurate shots than 15 less-than-accurate shots, unless the accuracy difference is pretty small. If 6 aren't enough, chances are a handgun isn't enough.

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  3. #17
    Member Array AZG23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevesteen
    I'd rather have 6 accurate shots than 15 less-than-accurate shots, unless the accuracy difference is pretty small. If 6 aren't enough, chances are a handgun isn't enough.

    obviously youve never done any kind of Force on Force training...

    You are moving, the BG is moving....and you dont have a chance to get your stance...because there is NO stance...

    Id rather have 15...cuz the 1st 4 might not even hit the BG...and then there is the chance of multiples...the stats of only 3 rounds fired is old...times are changing and BG's are hunting in packs...

    Carry what you will...but I wont be left with an empty gun cuz I thought 6 shots was "enough"...
    Brad B.

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    AZG23,

    +1

    I could not agree more. As I have said before.... What happens if you find yourself in a position where you NEED to move? Let's say you have two BG's, in seperate positions, each firing large-capacity mags and the wall you are hiding behind is falling apart? Supressive fire is going to be required to save your own life. That, in my opinion, is not going to happen with a wheel gun. Some people will feel absolutely fine carrying a wheel gun, which is awesome. Carry what you feel better with, just be even MORE careful about the situations you may find yourself in.

    I personally carry my H&K USPc with one in the tube plus 3 mags. I've had to do some training scenarios that have taught me that you can NEVER have enough ammunition when it comes down to it.

    But, this is just my opinion. Like I said, shoot what you are most comfortable with and MAKE SURE that you know your own and your firearm's limits.

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array hsuCowboy98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZG23
    obviously youve never done any kind of Force on Force training...

    You are moving, the BG is moving....and you dont have a chance to get your stance...because there is NO stance...

    Id rather have 15...cuz the 1st 4 might not even hit the BG...and then there is the chance of multiples...the stats of only 3 rounds fired is old...times are changing and BG's are hunting in packs...

    Carry what you will...but I wont be left with an empty gun cuz I thought 6 shots was "enough"...
    +1 on that brother.

    There is a world of differance between standing ona firing line knocking out bullseyes, and combat.

    I would suggest that if you are thinking of carrying a revolver, run a course of fire and see how proficient you are then.
    Fear No Evil.

  6. #20
    Member Array AZG23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hsuCowboy98
    +1 on that brother.
    I would suggest that if you are thinking of carrying a revolver, run a course of fire and see how proficient you are then.
    may I suggest you attend an IDPA match near you and compete with your revolver.....this will give you a "glimpse"....only a slight glimpse as it is just a game...and it is NOT training. But it will give you a better understanding of what "can" occur and the weapon handling to get you thru it...

    Im not saying that there are 5 BG's around EVERY corner...but train and carry for the chance that there just may be one day...may we be blessed to never have to...but train like it can happen.
    Brad B.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    What it all comes down to is this :

    If your life, or that of your loved ones, are on the line, what gun would you feel more confident with?

    Answer that question for yourself, then practice with it until it's like breathing.
    Firefighter/EMT
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  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter if you have a semi-auto filled with a bottomless magazine of thermo-nuclear hollowpoints if you can't hit squat with it. Go with the revolver for now and keep practicing with the semi-auto. YOU ARE NOT UNDERGUNNED WITH THE REVOLVER!
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  9. #23
    Member Array Tros's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your replies :)
    Beretta 92FS

  10. #24
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    Go with the revolver for now and keep practicing with the semi-auto. YOU ARE NOT UNDERGUNNED WITH THE REVOLVER!
    Unless of course you happen to get in a shootout with a badguy that has a 15,16 or 17 round magazine in his weapon. That can be a real advantage when you are just a few feet apart, you are both freaking out, you're both dancing in circles and looking for cover at the same time and you realize that you are missing as much as you are shooting.


    I suppose that might be one of the reasons that most of the police and militarys in the world have migrated from the revolver to the semi auto.
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  11. #25
    Member Array sevesteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZG23
    obviously youve never done any kind of Force on Force training...

    You are moving, the BG is moving....and you dont have a chance to get your stance...because there is NO stance...

    Id rather have 15...cuz the 1st 4 might not even hit the BG...and then there is the chance of multiples...the stats of only 3 rounds fired is old...times are changing and BG's are hunting in packs...

    Carry what you will...but I wont be left with an empty gun cuz I thought 6 shots was "enough"...
    The first to get 1 or 2 accurate shots on target will be the winner most of the time. If you can do that better with a revolver, that's what you should use. If you're equal or better with an auto, use an auto. If you carry an auto, fully load your magazines, because "too much" ammo is almost impossible. Force on force is valuable, but no guarantee that it will match the real world.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    I have never seen a revolver yet that offers the rapid and accurate follow-up shots that I can get with an automatic - the nature of the turning cylinder and trigger pull requirements make this a mechanical impossibility.

    If you simply shoot massively better with a revolver, and can do so under stress and lousy stance and in the rain when you're not feeling good, carry it. If not, shoot until you can or rethink your carry choices.

    My concern with any pistol is not the vaunted 'one shot stop' but rather how long the stop will take regardless of number of shots - I do not expect that my assailant (if I am graced to only meet one) will drop over and stop fighting after the first hit immediately.

    I expect that if the threat continues to manifest to continue to shoot until the threat ceases. I would like to have more bullets than required to accomplish that task.

    It's why I don't carry a 1911 any more, along with the safety (hate 'em on a carry gun) issue.

    If confronted with two or more bad guys, I want far more than 2 shots each. A 50% hit rate will put me with the best of the best under stress - and hoping for the one shot stop at that point with one left in the cylinder on the average 5-shot carry revolver.
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  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns
    Unless of course you happen to get in a shootout with a badguy that has a 15,16 or 17 round magazine in his weapon. That can be a real advantage when you are just a few feet apart, you are both freaking out, you're both dancing in circles and looking for cover at the same time and you realize that you are missing as much as you are shooting.


    I suppose that might be one of the reasons that most of the police and militarys in the world have migrated from the revolver to the semi auto.
    The first rule of a gunfight is to bring a gun. Bring what you are confortable with and bring extra ammo.
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  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfurtkamp
    I have never seen a revolver yet that offers the rapid and accurate follow-up shots that I can get with an automatic - the nature of the turning cylinder and trigger pull requirements make this a mechanical impossibility.

    If you simply shoot massively better with a revolver, and can do so under stress and lousy stance and in the rain when you're not feeling good, carry it. If not, shoot until you can or rethink your carry choices.

    My concern with any pistol is not the vaunted 'one shot stop' but rather how long the stop will take regardless of number of shots - I do not expect that my assailant (if I am graced to only meet one) will drop over and stop fighting after the first hit immediately.

    I expect that if the threat continues to manifest to continue to shoot until the threat ceases. I would like to have more bullets than required to accomplish that task.

    It's why I don't carry a 1911 any more, along with the safety (hate 'em on a carry gun) issue.

    If confronted with two or more bad guys, I want far more than 2 shots each. A 50% hit rate will put me with the best of the best under stress - and hoping for the one shot stop at that point with one left in the cylinder on the average 5-shot carry revolver.
    I saw a guy on a History Channel show called "Sharpshooters" empty two wheelies in under a second into a steel plate with good combat accuracy at a reasonable distance. IIRC I think the time was 0.64!!!!! Now the Average Joe can't do that, but it can be done.
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  15. #29
    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    I saw a guy on a History Channel show called "Sharpshooters" empty two wheelies in under a second into a steel plate with good combat accuracy at a reasonable distance. IIRC I think the time was 0.64!!!!! Now the Average Joe can't do that, but it can be done.
    It's about on par with many of the serious non-professional game shooters out there with autos.

    My draw and fire time at a B27 at 7-15m is 2.7-2.9s, 18 rounds from a stock Sig 226. Take draw out, and shave probably a second off.

    The problem with firing at those speeds, and I know well how it's done, is that pure gimmick shooting (which is what those speeds represent in real terms) has very little fire control, especially with two guns. Ask for discrete control, say 'fire only 4 shots from each', and that speed and accuracy goes down substantially.

    What you've missed in my reply above was the note of "reasonable and accurate follow-up shots" - I'm not talking about dumping as fast as you can pull the trigger at a steel target. That's relatively easy with practice, round count, and good manual dexterity.

    I should also add that those speeds on a revolver destroy the lockwork - those same speeds on an auto do nothing to the gun.
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