Bolt Action Vs. Semi-Automatics

This is a discussion on Bolt Action Vs. Semi-Automatics within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Well, I agree, a bigger caliber is necessary for long range, but Im not talking sniper activity here, I was refering to scout duties, and ...

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Thread: Bolt Action Vs. Semi-Automatics

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array hsuCowboy98's Avatar
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    Well, I agree, a bigger caliber is necessary for long range, but Im not talking sniper activity here, I was refering to scout duties, and combat at less than 200 meters, such as an urban environment. The velocity out of a 20'' bbl is appx 3250fps give or take a few. Heck, anymore almost all rifles are deployed with some sort of optics, and more and more designated marksmen are patroling

    A sniper rifle has no use at short ranges in an urban environment, mainly becaus eof the field of view. I guess what the point is of having a 1.5x-5x variable scope is to facilitate hits on fast moving targets at close range (out to 200m). The field of view on the larger scopes is simply too narrow for close engagements with multiple/moving targets.

    Bottom line...(and getting back to the original question)...bolt actions are superior for precision shots at extened ranges.

    Semi-autos are superior for engaging multiple targets at close to semi medium range. And most certainly superior in an urban (read: building to building engagements).

    The Iraqi's semi-auto Druganov based rifles certainly havent been discounted as innaccurate or ineffective, and they use basic PSO-1 sights, so I really think it is premature to simply rule out a semi auto sniper rifle, certainly not in a larger caliber.
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  3. #17
    Member Array floridaguy911's Avatar
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    HSU, thanks for pulling the thread back to where it should be.

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  4. #18
    Senior Member Array hsuCowboy98's Avatar
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    Just wanted to answer your question Brother,

    didnt want this to turn into yet another caliber war or semi-auto vs. bolt war, or worse yet, a combination of both with a dash of the sniper war thrown in....If I wanted that Id just go pretend along with everyone else at ar15.com

    Just like in mechanic work, or gunsmithing, each is a tool for a specific job. Decide what the job is, and find a tool that will do it the most efficiently and effectively as possible. And realize that what is most efficient for you, may be useless for the next person that comes along: Proving that the best tool to use is your own skills and intelligence, regardless of what anyone else tries to say.
    Fear No Evil.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    It is very possible to be fast and accurate, it is near impossible to be fast and precise.
    closed the thread for me , yall have fun lol
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  6. #20
    Member Array floridaguy911's Avatar
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    You and a few others have made it clear to me that bolt-action rifles ARE more accurate than semi's under MOST circumstances. The reason I was asking is Im considering buying another hunting rifle, (.243 or 30-06) and my father stated that bolt actions were more accurate, and being the person I am.. I had a hard time believing that without proof or other opinions. I strongly believed they were not only identical in caliber and gun model, but also identical in accuracy, but the semi was a faster repeat shot. Seems as though my theory was wrong due to tighter design of bolts.
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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array hsuCowboy98's Avatar
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    Well I think im done here too, the original question has been answered.
    Last edited by hsuCowboy98; July 25th, 2006 at 04:11 PM.
    Fear No Evil.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array blueyedevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by floridaguy911
    You and a few others have made it clear to me that bolt-action rifles ARE more accurate than semi's under MOST circumstances. The reason I was asking is Im considering buying another hunting rifle, (.243 or 30-06) and my father stated that bolt actions were more accurate, and being the person I am.. I had a hard time believing that without proof or other opinions. I strongly believed they were not only identical in caliber and gun model, but also identical in accuracy, but the semi was a faster repeat shot. Seems as though my theory was wrong due to tighter design of bolts.
    If you're looking for a hunting rifle, I think the bolt is the obvious choice. Now then, from experience I'll tell you that not all rifles are created equal in the accuracy dept. Alot of the most popular factory rifles being put out right now are substandard in the accuracy dept. I'd stick to those rifles that have a sub MOA gaurantee. Savage is probably the best bargain out there right now as far as accuracy goes. Sako, Tikka and CZ are pricier but they shoot about the same out the box, of course they have much better wood and finish, and the savage is a bit clunkier in feel than those three. I'm sure there are a ton of mod 70, 700 and M77 fans around, but to be honest all three have been really inconsistant in the last ten years. Of course if you're looking to build a custom rifle the 700 is the way to go. I've also had good luck with the browning A-Bolt's but I don't think they carry a MOA gaurantee.

  9. #23
    Member Array PgSqlQuery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hsuCowboy98
    The Iraqi's semi-auto Druganov based rifles certainly havent been discounted as innaccurate or ineffective, and they use basic PSO-1 sights, so I really think it is premature to simply rule out a semi auto sniper rifle, certainly not in a larger caliber.
    You mean soviet (Снайперская винтовка Драгунова)

    Either or, yeah, I had the pleasure to shoot an SVD here recently.... it is VERY accurate, HOWEVER, for great accuracy, you have to wait for it to cool between shots....

    As a matter of personal preference, I'll take 50 of each :)
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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array hsuCowboy98's Avatar
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    Savage is probably the best bargain out there right now as far as accuracy goes.
    +1 Ive got a Savage .270 that will shoot MOA with that sorry 8point simmons scope still on it.

    As a matter of personal preference, I'll take 50 of each :)

    +1 on that for sure.
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  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    Most semis aren't as accurate as most bolts, for reasons that have been pretty thoroughly discussed already.

    But don't make any mistake about it: you can find very accurate semis that shoot the pants off of a few bolts.

    I've seen some Remington and some Browning semiautos that outshoot a couple of my Mosins at 100 yards.....

    But yeah, generally, a bolt is going to be more accurate.

    The rapid follow-up thing is the same. I've got a Ruger M77 .30-06 on which I can make the bolt freakin' FLY I can crank it so fast.

    Faster than a few semi autos I've seen, believe it or not.

    On a related note, someone posted on here (or some other board) their experiences with shotguns. Surprisingly, one of the pumps (Winchester 1300, I think) was capable of shooting faster than a Remington 1100.

    Generally, I'll say a semi can pitch lead downrange a little faster than a bolt.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hsuCowboy98
    You can doubt it all you want to, but Im not going to call one of my buddy in Iraq a liar. He had to come off the 700 after being blown up by a IED in Afghanistan almost 1 years ago to the day, after that point, he was given the option of returning to the 700 and sniping, or of changing squads and running the AR on redeployment this year in urban Iraq.
    I believe there is some confusion surrounding the M40A3 and the SAM-R. I am not a Marine, but I have friends who are and I have worked with USMC units on several occasions. As far as I know, the M40A3 continues to be the USMC's primary sniper rifle.

    The Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle (SAM-R) is a modified M-16A2/A4 with a scope. (The ones I have seen were Leupold 3-9x36mm MR/T's). The Army is fielding a similar rifle called the Squad Designated Marksman Rifle (SDM-R). I was told the SAM-R was intended to replace the Designated Marksman Rifle (DMR), which is/was an M-14 variant. I am sure there are still some DMR's in the field, though I have not seen any. The intent of the SAM-R is to equip the rifle squad with a weapon system capable of delivering precision fires. Not everyone issued a precision rifle, like the SAM-R, is a sniper. Undoubtedly, some snipers are using SAM-R's.

    Quote Originally Posted by RSSZ
    hsu, A gas operated 20"bbled,5.56,with a 1.5 X 5 powered scope ???? What do them little tiny pills come poppin' out the bbl at,and what is their BC at even 500m goin' that slow??

    Are we talking about SNIPER WEAPONS here or a weapon that can lay down volumes of cover(or otherwise)fire at simi extended(500m or so)ranges ???
    Using Mk262 MOD 0 or MOD 1 ammunition, the 5.56x45mm is more than capable of center-punching someone out to 600 meters or more. Given that the ranges involved in an urban evironment are generally shorter than that, but there is frequently a need for a precise shot, a weapon system like the SAM-R or SDM-R is a valueable tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsuCowboy98
    I disagree, speed and accuracy can coexist, speed and precision are mutually exclusive.

    It is very possible to be fast and accurate, it is near impossible to be fast and precise.
    Speed and accuracy/precision are not mutually exclusive. Their ability to coexist is dependant upon the skill of the shooter. The essence of being a good combat shooter is to balance the two. What may be a very precise shot for one shooter may be a relatively easy one for another.

    I'll now return you to your debate...

  13. #27
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    You and a few others have made it clear to me that bolt-action rifles ARE more accurate than semi's under MOST circumstances. The reason I was asking is Im considering buying another hunting rifle, (.243 or 30-06) and my father stated that bolt actions were more accurate, and being the person I am.. I had a hard time believing that without proof or other opinions. I strongly believed they were not only identical in caliber and gun model, but also identical in accuracy, but the semi was a faster repeat shot. Seems as though my theory was wrong due to tighter design of bolts.
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    I wont argue that on the average, bolts are more accurate than semis.

    Just what exactly are you planning to hunt ? As mentioned in a previous thread, you need to make sure that you have the right tool for the right job.

    If you plan on deer hunting and you shots will be at 300 or less, the semi would serve you better than a bolt, escpecially in you are in a wooded environment where running shots are a real possibility. In areas where visibility is limited, such as Pine plantations or the thick woods, you simply may not have the time to manipulate the bolt for a second shot. For those that think every shot should be a hit, they have obviously never hunted in the south where buck deer are at a dead run when being chased by dogs. I have used a Rem. 7400 with great effect and killed deer on the run with the second,third and fourth shot. No way could I have done that with a bolt action, of which I have a fair assortment.

    If you are sitting in a deer stand over looking several hundred yards of clear cut or cattle pasture, a bolt action will serve you well as the quick shot capability simply isnt needed.

    You have to look at the big picture. I've got bolts that'll do less than an inch at 100 all day long. My semis,of which I have several, will pretty much do 2 inches and under. If you are speaking in terms of "deer" either will work for pretty much any shot that you will take on a deer.

    Its all relative. There are those that will use nothing but a semi and there are those that will swear by a bolt. The smart man chooses the most effective tool for the job. He understands the limitations of each design and utilizes the strengths of each.
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  14. #28
    Member Array floridaguy911's Avatar
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    Lots of reading here before i head to work. Can anyone tell me what MOA stands for? I feel like a retard!
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  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    Equates to >>> 1"@100yds,2"@200yds,etc.

    Also for hunting purposes,a simi auto is just fine. It (they)are capeable of all the accuracy that you will ever need. -------

  16. #30
    Member Array floridaguy911's Avatar
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    HOTGUNS. Thank you for your reply. It has once again helped me out tremendously!

    The Rifle will be used primarily for Deer hunting in Alabama and Georgia. Every year we rent plots to hunt on in these states. There are some openings and clearings on the way down into the valley, but a lot of shots will be more limited than overlooking any open field. Lots of pines and small planted pines where we put our treestands. MOST of our shots are 150 yards or less. I have did online research about the different calibers to try to weigh out which one presents the most advantages to me, without posing an alarming disadvantage and still have not come up with the answer through my own research. (This does not include this forum which has been more than helpful on any firearm related topic I can think of) I hate to re-open threads on a different question, but what is everyones OPINION of what the best caliber rifle for my application might be, given the circumstances mentioned above?

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