Bolt Action Vs. Semi-Automatics
This is a discussion on Bolt Action Vs. Semi-Automatics within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; For <150 yds., pick any legal caliber. IIRC, for Arkansas that is anything over .243. For wooded areas at 150 yds, one might consider something ...
July 26th, 2006 09:18 AM
For <150 yds., pick any legal caliber. IIRC, for Arkansas that is anything over .243. For wooded areas at 150 yds, one might consider something with a reasonably flat trajectory out to 200yds. That would eliminate the venerable .30-30...which I have seen take good sized deer at 150 yds. But, with the LeveReverolution ammo, even the .30-30 would have a reasonable trajectory it those ranges.
The short version: probably just about any rifle that shoots a spitzer bullet (as opposed to flat-nosed or round-nosed) is going to perform splendidly.
Note: I remember seeing a gaggle of my uncles and cousins empty their weps one Thanksgiving morn at a running buck across an open field. They all MISSED!!!!! These were squirrel hunters, too...but no one laid off the trigger long enough to just take a good shot.
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July 26th, 2006 11:42 AM
FLguy - RSSZ is right - and the acronym stands for ''minute of arc'' - the subtended angle deviation from POA compared with actual POI.
Your caliber dilemma - well as with all things shooting opinions will vary!! Hard to make a hard and fast answer but - for me my min cal choice would be .243. i load a heavy 105 grain spitzer from Speer for that round and it is most effective - the case being a necked-down .308.
.270 is perhaps the nicest compromize but then for sheer convenience many, myself included - go with the good ol' .308 Win. That is plenty enough zap for your ranges - here in fact many times shots are within 100 and often 75 or even 50.
Bullet options are so good these days that terminal effectiveness is excellent and so it is IMO possible to go a bit smaller. Then tho we can include 6.5mm as another choice and then ............ shucks - so many choices.
To sum up - I do not think you can go wrong with .308, or 30-06 for a 30 cal - and you know it will get the job done. Just my rambling 2c
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July 26th, 2006 03:28 PM
I actually had an AR-15 built to counter the argument that bolt actions are inherently more accurate. With the right ammo (Winchester 45 grain Varmint) it will shoot ragged one hole groups at 100 yards, with me behind the trigger, and I'm not the best rifle shot I know. All I had to do was float the barrel (just like a bolt gun), get a bull barrel (for heating and stiffness) with the proper twist, put in a match trigger (just like a bolt gun) and put on good glass (Nikon). It did cost me a couple hundred dollars more than a stock AR-15.
Speed, accuracy and precision are not that hard to achieve. Industries all over the world prove that every day.
Now, for what you want it for, almost any decent quality bolt, lever or semi will work. The Savages are very attractive in terms of the performance for their price
July 28th, 2006 03:08 AM
Okay, first of all MOA when talking about shooting, is in fact, Minute Of Angle. Minute Of Arc is a similar, mathematical term(both refer to 1/60 of a degree). And 1 MOA = 1.047 inches at 100 yards. This doesn't make much difference for most peoples purposes. But when you're shooting past 500yds, it starts to matter. Yes, some autos can be as accurate/precise as bolts at close range (>500yds), but the bolts pull away very quickly after that point because of as others have stated, the variations in pressure and velocity due to the operation of the bolt by recoil/blowback/gas. Now if you're never gonna take a shot beyond 200yds, none of this makes a lick of difference. With a Alabama deer's vitals being at least 6" in diameter, if you do your part, any rifle that will shoot 3 MOA will be more than you need. However if you come out west, and you've spent your time practicing, if a big deer or elk steps out somewhere in that 500-1000 range if you've got a good bolt and a solid rest, you've got a full freezer and a trophy on the wall.
July 28th, 2006 07:33 AM
When yer shootin' 1000yds. it matters to the tune of---> 0.47" (less than half an inch) At 1000yds.what matters to a greater degree is angle(up-down hill) and cant of scope(rolling weapon and scope right-left) Anybody that can hold a half inch at 1000yds. is MORE than a world champion.--------
July 28th, 2006 09:48 AM
A spitzer bullet is what? the pointed bullet? Again, I have hunted so many times, just not with my own rifles, usually my fathers and prior to now he usually provided the rifle and ammunition.
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July 28th, 2006 01:44 PM
True, except when you make your scope adjustment for say, 140" of drop @ 1000, if you don't factor in the extra .47" you end up being off by around 8", That's a major difference. Yes, you have to make sure you're scope is mounted correctly, and more importantly that your weapon is shouldered correctly with a consistant cheek weld. Angle really is rarely a problem most people will never find a shot with a steep enough angle to effect impact by more than 2". The reason why people miss on angles is due to misjudging distance (use a rangefinder) and bad form (use a good rest).
Originally Posted by RSSZ
July 28th, 2006 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by floridaguy911
Spitzer is German for "pointed", bullets with a "spitzer" design have a very pointed nose, most match bullets have a similar shape to spitzers (with boat tail), because the design lends itself to high ballistic coeficients (low drag).
Last edited by blueyedevil; July 28th, 2006 at 03:13 PM.
July 28th, 2006 10:56 PM
Originally Posted by hsuCowboy98
I just read the book "Shooter" written by GSGT. Jack Coughlin and Capt. Casey Kuhlman. This book is about a Marine sniper's tour during Operation Iraqi Freedom. He used a bolt action M-40 in urban environments quite well. His theory about sniping in urban environments has nothing to do with volume of fire. His theory and sucess was based on being highly mobile. After getting three kills in a location, his team moved. You should be able to find it at you local bookstore in the history section. It is a good read and I suggest that you pick up a copy.
As far as your friend, I don't doubt that he is using that weapon. It sounds like what a Spotter might carry on a sniper team.
Last edited by Doc Holliday; July 28th, 2006 at 11:06 PM.
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July 28th, 2006 11:47 PM
Consider what you will be doing with this rifle. Do you want a long range gun or just a medium range gun ?
modern gun should be fairly accurate. Bolt guns tend to be lighter, and accurate, but semis are accurate as well. I shoot both semis and bolt gun and shot cometition with a accurized semi auto out to 600 yrds.
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