ND;s Anoyonomous

ND;s Anoyonomous

This is a discussion on ND;s Anoyonomous within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I was at the range training at my old job when we decided to do force on force with snap caps. Well, I cleared my ...

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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    ND;s Anoyonomous

    I was at the range training at my old job when we decided to do force on force with snap caps. Well, I cleared my chamber, put the round in my pocket, pointed the gun at the ground, pulled the trigger and boy was i shocked when it went bang, sent dirt flying into the air, everyone, me included, dove for cover and i dropped my gun. I checked it and found that I had in fact cleared the chamber. Alas that does no good when closing the slide on a loaded magazine that i forgot (stupidly i admit) to pull out of the gun. I then removed myself from the range and watched the drills being done instead of actually performing them because it was obvious my mind was not where it should have been. I have been ND free for over a year and a half now. I had a similar event earlier that year where my extractor did not grab the rim of the case in the chamber and eject it, the slide locked back as though it was empty. I pointed downrange, pulled trigger gun made a bang noise. I then realized i made an oopsie and made sure to not do it again. Gun safety rules, made so even if one of em gets broken, the rest keep people safe. I think I accedentally hit the slide lock button and locked the slide back also
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."


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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    This is why I don't believe anyone should trust the safety between their ears.

    You got lucky, twice... what have you learned?

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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    check the chamber and mag well, luckily both times i pointed down range or at the ground down range, even when you think its empty, its loaded. the second was stupid, the first was a combo of me inducing a malfunction and stupid
    Last edited by INccwchris; May 19th, 2011 at 03:58 AM.
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    RKM
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    You pointed the gun in a safe direction. There is a reason there are numerous safety rules. You mess up one rule due to being human, there are other that cover you. No biggie.

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    I had one a few years ago while deer hunting. We were driving the two-track trail along the pipeline when a rather large buck bounded out of a valley as we topped a small hill. I jumped out of the truck and cocked my single shot .22-250. I got a bead on him right as he walked into the woods. I pointed the gun down and slowly released the hammer to de-cock the gun. It slipped. Gun went bang, I jumped, and the bullet just barely clipped the corner of the truck door. I thought I'd never live it down, but my Dad did the same thing to his Ford last Fall, only higher up. His door doesn't even open from the outside now.

    IMO, it's one of those things that just happens. We can't dwell on it. It's better to know what you did wrong and laugh about how stupid you were. As long as you followed the "point it in a safe direction" rule, you'll have nothing but some possible property damage.

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    I believe you said that you have an interest in going into law enforcement. I'm not sure about all other jurisdictions, but a ND like that on the Maricopa County Sheriff's range would get you thrown off the range. I saw it happen twice when I went through the academy....
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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    yeah, both times i removed myself from the range, i obviously was not in the mindset to be there. Btw, just finished my pre-basic course so i am certified but on probation until the academy, i got hired by a new company that offered the cert and the academy starts for me in april of next year, i have my powers until then but only at work, so i am almost at my goal of being a full time LEO.
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    I was at the range training at my old job when we decided to do force on force with snap caps. Well, I cleared my chamber, put the round in my pocket, pointed the gun at the ground, pulled the trigger and boy was i shocked when it went bang, sent dirt flying into the air, everyone, me included, dove for cover and i dropped my gun. I checked it and found that I had in fact cleared the chamber. Alas that does no good when closing the slide on a loaded magazine that i forgot (stupidly i admit) to pull out of the gun. I then removed myself from the range and watched the drills being done instead of actually performing them because it was obvious my mind was not where it should have been. I have been ND free for over a year and a half now. I had a similar event earlier that year where my extractor did not grab the rim of the case in the chamber and eject it, the slide locked back as though it was empty. I pointed downrange, pulled trigger gun made a bang noise. I then realized i made an oopsie and made sure to not do it again. Gun safety rules, made so even if one of em gets broken, the rest keep people safe. I think I accedentally hit the slide lock button and locked the slide back also
    Dude, are you kidding?

    TWO NDs in ONE YEAR!?!

    You made an OOPSIE?!? What are you, 9?

    What the hell kind of force on force training happens at the range when you just finished live fire? Your "mind was not where it should have been" and your entire head seems to have been somewhere else too.

    If you cannot perform basic firearms skills in a stress-free environment, what are you going to do when rounds are coming downrange AT YOU? You've posted some real brain farts before but come on, TWO NDs in one year? You need to step back and reassess your entire mental process. IF you survive long enough to get into an Academy AND if you manage to graduate, what's going to happen if you "oopsie" a round in your partner's (more likely your FTO) back?

    I'm really not trying to be too harsh on you. I've known people who have had an ND for whatever reason, but never two, much less two in one year.

    Seriously dude, get your head pulled out and on straight before your next "oopsie" kills someone.
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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    uhh both times i made a mistake i admitted it and removed myself from the firing line, i followed procedure by pointing it in a safe direction, granted i didn't check the weapon enough but i wasn't properly trained the first time and the second time i knew better but due to the fact we had been going for a few hours after i got off work i was tired and probably shouldn't have been on the range, I admitted my mistakes, what other brain farts are you referring too? Its been a year and a half since both incidents, and I have been shooting rifles and shotguns, for almost 12 years now, and handguns only about 2 years, for only 5 months when the second incident occured. People make mistakes. I havn't posted anything on here out of line or that could get me in trouble, legally or otherwise, before you go spouting off you might want to think about the fact that there are other things involved than what you understand. This topic is getting way off topic, this is supposed to be a judgement free thread where people can post their mistakes and others can learn from them, not get flamed for something stupid that happened a year and a half ago and has been learned from.
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Well, I'm going to offer a different view of this. Regarding the one at the range, you were at a shooting range and intentionally pointed the gun down range and intentionally pulled the trigger. The issue was you were surprised by the bang, but not oblivious to the possibility that it could happen...at a shooting range. That one, does the locale and the intentional actions differentiate this instance in any way? I don't know, each person's perspective or opinion may be different. The other incident, that's an "oh holy crap" moment in which I'm sure you felt there wasn't a rock big enough to crawl under.

    I'm not going to be critical because an ND can happen to any one of us...and likely has to a fair number. At this point, all you can do is have these instances burn the importance of clearing your firearm following the proper process multiple times and not pulling the trigger. There is really no reason to pull the trigger to clear your firearm. Some firearms require the trigger to be pulled to field strip, but none just to clear. It is a process and a habit that needs re-training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    Well, I'm going to offer a different view of this. Regarding the one at the range, you were at a shooting range and intentionally pointed the gun down range and intentionally pulled the trigger. The issue was you were surprised by the bang, but not oblivious to the possibility that it could happen...at a shooting range. That one, does the locale and the intentional actions differentiate this instance in any way? I don't know, each person's perspective or opinion may be different. The other incident, that's an "oh holy crap" moment in which I'm sure you felt there wasn't a rock big enough to crawl under.

    I'm not going to be critical because an ND can happen to any one of us...and likely has to a fair number. At this point, all you can do is have these instances burn the importance of clearing your firearm following the proper process multiple times and not pulling the trigger. There is really no reason to pull the trigger to clear your firearm. Some firearms require the trigger to be pulled to field strip, but none just to clear. It is a process and a habit that needs re-training.
    Actually, I suggest that the incident of the ND before "force on force" demonstrates the value of that final "hammer down" check. But for that, the force on force training might well have ended with a lethal error.

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    With today's fiber optic technology, perhaps manufacturers should make lighted breach faces or mag wells to facilitate effective clearing of their firearms? It apparently works for cupholders...
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    Seriously, and this is not a flame or a personal attack. Just common sense advice after you having reported that you've suffering 2 NDs in less than that many years.
    You might want to consider permanently transitioning over to a revolver as your duty sidearm.
    I say that because "force on force" and (in fact) all training regimens can only ever be approximate simulation of "real world" scenarios & if you are multiple NDing during training because you can't seem to get your head where it needs to be...then you would likely be better served with a wheel gun out on the street where things happen fast and furious and your adrenaline pumping reality will be "life & death" with you often being in close proximity with fellow officers and innocent bystanders.
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    Member Array Islandp229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Seriously, and this is not a flame or a personal attack. Just common sense advice after you having reported that you've suffering 2 NDs in less than that many years.
    You might want to consider permanently transitioning over to a revolver as your duty sidearm.
    I say that because "force on force" and (in fact) all training regimens can only ever be approximate simulation of "real world" scenarios & if you are multiple NDing during training because you can't seem to get your head where it needs to be...then you would likely be better served with a wheel gun out on the street where things happen fast and furious and your adrenaline pumping reality will be "life & death" with you often being in close proximity with fellow officers and innocent bystanders.
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