1911 article from Air Force Times.

This is a discussion on 1911 article from Air Force Times. within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; "In combat, modern pistol designs have made the 1911 obsolete. It’s finicky and demands constant attention that a war fighter can’t afford to offer ... ...

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Thread: 1911 article from Air Force Times.

  1. #16
    GM
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    "In combat, modern pistol designs have made the 1911 obsolete. It’s finicky and demands constant attention that a war fighter can’t afford to offer ... Warnings aside, the pistol’s appeal is strong and romantic, not tactical. Picking up the pistol feels like shaking hands with John Wayne…" I am wordless! But, if Vickers says it then it must be true



    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    The 411 on 1911: With patience and a budget, you can own the .45 of your dreams - Off Duty, Technology - Air Force Times

    Nice rundown of desirable mods to personalize a 1911. One thing I disagree with though, I would NEVER trade a 1911 for a Glock.
    I would never trade a good 1911 for ANY pistol. I must be sooo weird because I trust my life to a 1911.



    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    My GOD, I am so tragically unhip.
    Good to know that I am not the only one!




    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Me too OD*.

    I'm so pitiful that stuff like this represents the .45 of my dreams. My first 1911 that I got for myself for my 21st birthday in 1987. It recently returned to duty after being out of action with a missing front sight. Do you know how hard it is to find a correct thin-blade half moon sight as would be proper on a 1918 vintage Colt 1911? It never bobbles and has never jammed but the front sight slung off after 90 years.
    That is sooo sweet! Congrats lucky guy!
    Last edited by GM; June 16th, 2011 at 06:36 AM.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    I have a lot of respect for Larry Vickers, but after reading that article, I felt like he was doing a little selling.

    "If you want a 1911 that will go a million rounds a year, you need what Larry uses".
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
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  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    trade a 1911 for a glock is using words to create obscenity, the very thought is aberrant.
    its....its, repellent. to rescind that written statement , well, nothing less than repealing
    the written word would be neces
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
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  5. #19
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    You're making me feel bad QK, out of the current 17 1911s (yep, added another to the herd), I have one that I needed to buy an EGW HD magazine catch to help lift the magazines a little higher to reliably feed Gold Dots. I'm ashamed I've neglected the others so badly.


    Oh yeah, thanks for the tip on the Les Baer's, I shall not carry that crappy TRS anymore!!!
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
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  6. #20
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    I don't slam Glocks. I think they are wonderful ultra-reliable reasonably priced handguns. They are incredible pistols but, they did not get their reliability at the expense of the reliability of all other handguns. The Mona Lisa is a phenomenal painting but, that does not mean that every other painting by every other artist is a piece of crap. There are other paintings equally as good painted by other artists equally as accomplished.

    I will admit that the 1911 is THE most half-assed home gun-smithed pistol that ever existed and that fact probably skews the "Failure To" numbers quite a bit.
    Most "drop in" parts cannot simply be dropped in. One "misfit" part and the pistol will have problems. That is the case with every other make of firearm also but, it is seen most in 1911s due to the popularity of the gun coupled with the fact that owners absolutely love to "customize" it...some or most without knowing what they are doing.

    There is some worthwhile info provided in that article that I do agree with. Unfortunately a portion of it has leaked out of the Trainer Bravado southern orifice and that is quite sad. Boo Hoo.

    So.....how many of you previously uneducated, innocently ignorant, DefensiveCarry amateur War Fighters are going switch on over to the Big "G" now that you are better informed?

    Can I see a Show of Hands? <~~~No, of course I can't...I can't see anything except what I'm typing right now.
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  7. #21
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    See...now that's EXACTLY what I'm talkin' about. I know for a fact that you own 17 1911 pistols BUT, you needed to buy a magazine catch for one of them.
    You admit it!
    And I just checked their web site and the Evolution Gun Works magazine catch is on sale and priced at slightly less than a thousand dollars. With shipping and insurance it's $1,000.00
    Add to that yet another thousand for the overly busy gunsmith to do the professional custom magazine catch installation and you're already up at 2 Grand just for just that one pistol.


    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    You're making me feel bad QK, out of the current 17 1911s (yep, added another to the herd), I have one that I needed to buy an EGW HD magazine catch to help lift the magazines a little higher to reliably feed Gold Dots. I'm ashamed I've neglected the others so badly.


    Oh yeah, thanks for the tip on the Les Baer's, I shall not carry that crappy TRS anymore!!!
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  8. #22
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    Here's the other side. The sight went AWOL in summer of 2008 and I'm just so pleased to have it back on duty. It even did duty as the car gun on a trip out west a couple of weeks back. OD* gets extra points for noticing that it's an Augusta Arsenal rehab. OD*, I actually had a clever gunsmith fabricate one after a couple years search for a proper replacement. Wish the pistol could talk. I've been in close contact with 4 other AA reworks of 1911s that family or friends owned, all with serial numbers in the same general range and all were obtained through the NRA in the 1950s so I suspect this one mustered out in the same way.

    Nope, QK it ain't got nothin'. Thousands were definitely not spent on it. I think it was marked $165 at Weber Jewelry and Loan on South Main Street in Fort Worth, Texas where I got it and they came off $20 for me. That wasn't even a really good deal at the time but I didn't know any better. The extractor that's in it was in it when I bought the gun. The extractor never even had the decency to break when I used to allow it to snap over a chambered round before learning better. I have treated it to springs on occasion; plain jain 16 lb. recoil springs are good enough. Feeds the proverbial cigar butt. For several years when it was the only 1911 .45 on the place I had a cloth bank coin bag that I'd keep full of 1200 rounds of handloads. It went through a number of those bags. I used to shoot a lot of 185 grain lead SWCs because they were cheap. It'd feed 'em loaded mild or loaded wild. Did all my initial handloading experimentation with this 1911. It's actually the 1911 that's been carried most of all and is the one traditionally used when my wife and I renew our concealed carry permits.

    I get sentimental about my old favorite guns and there is no place for sentimentality with personal self-defense. Despite the sentimentality this thing still works and works well. I'd still take it seriously for self defense. The afternoon the front sight took its leave my son and I had already chewed through most of 8 boxes of stinky ol' Wolf ammo given to me on a freebie. The Colt Gold Cup choked and harked on this same filthy ammo after about the first box.

    The U. S. military contract 1911s and 1911A1s, along with a Colt Government Model that a cousin has, are the kinds of 1911s I grew up with. They gave me the trust I have in the design. I wouldn't know what to do with one with all the bells and whistles.

    Here's the poor old 1911 just after it lost it's front sight. This photo of it and the Colt Gold Cup was taken when we got our first digital camera. We're never on the cutting edge of technology here.


    I was at the range this morning testing some handloads over the chronograph. Thought to take these Frankfort Arsenal '26 cartridges along. Wanted to shoot two of them and save the best looking one for the collection. Was hoping to be able to report that they still fired and gave normal velocities after 85 years but, after a couple of thwacks each, they proved to be duds.


    17 OD*? I have 4. Looks like we could use a redistribution of wealth around here regarding 1911s. I need to get a good Colt Government Model and give this one and my other military contract guns an honored retirement. The Gold Cup is for target use.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  9. #23
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    bmcgilvray
    Thanks for posting the great pics.

    "Thought to take these Frankfort Arsenal '26 cartridges along."

    Duds!

    Yeah...that .45acp ammo is pretty unreliable also. That's why it's just the perfect choice for the totally inadequate 1911 pattern handguns.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    This photo of it and the Colt Gold Cup was taken when we got our first digital camera. We're never on the cutting edge of technology here.
    What the heck is a digital camera???? You must excuse my ignorance...I do,after all, own many 100 year old platform pistols and other than my BUG, those old fuddy duddy 1911's are all I carry, so obviously I am way behind the times...and probably stoopid too!

  11. #25
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    "finicky and demands constant attention", yeah, must be why it was used for longer than any other modern handgun in any army. And all my shooting friends and I have just been lucky that our guns work all the time while competitive shooting (except for the guy who gunsmiths his to death, and the guy who can't handload one magazine worth of ammo without a squib or a stuck shell). I don't know why anyone would take such an obsolete weapon into battle. Except for the fact it replaced revolvers when revolvers were the state of the art handguns. And it only got replaced after two World Wars and a number of lesser conflicts, when "smaller stature" personnel couldn't handle them (but how does my buddy's pre-teen grand daughter shoot his?). Funny story about extractors, the first time a Glock was ever used in one of our pinshooting matches, the extractor broke.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    See...now that's EXACTLY what I'm talkin' about. I know for a fact that you own 17 1911 pistols BUT, you needed to buy a magazine catch for one of them.
    You admit it!
    And I just checked their web site and the Evolution Gun Works magazine catch is on sale and priced at slightly less than a thousand dollars. With shipping and insurance it's $1,000.00
    Add to that yet another thousand for the overly busy gunsmith to do the professional custom magazine catch installation and you're already up at 2 Grand just for just that one pistol.
    I know, I find it disgusting too.

    I lied also, it's one of the very few I've polished the feed ramp and barrel throat on, it will now preform the "parlor trick" of feeding empty cases. A long time ago I tried feeding empties through all the 1911s I owned at the time just for giggles, two pistols would preform the trick, then an old hand at 1911s told me the key to the "trick" was to use re-sized cases, he was correct, now I only have one that won't feed empty cases.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

  13. #27
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    From the pictures Bryan, your gunsmith did a super job on the front sight (and the supply of M1903 front sights is nearly gone anyhow).

    I noticed the arsenal markings because they are starting to become quite collectible in there own right. For years collectors ignored them for not being 100% original, now that the market on 100%er's has nearly dried up, they've changed their tune, and argue about whether the piece is 100% arsenal refurbished, or if parts were changed after it had left the arsenal. I recently sold a nice RIA refurbish to a friend who has been looking for a "real" USGI pistol for years.

    Number 17 I just received last weekend, a good friend of mine was going through a nasty divorce and I kept a few of his more cherished pieces for safe keeping. Most of them you would appreciate Bryan, an example, a correct and original Winchester M1 carbine, a Springfield M1D (that one I really didn't want to give back ), several pristine M1911A1s and a Nazi marked P-38, etc.

    Last weekend he was moving and I happen to be there helping, when we had finished and were the only two there, he handed me a 1944 Ithaca, the gun is in nice shape, with the exception of two things, it has been "bumper" chromed and has another modification done to it that I'll let you find.

    Anyway, I was quite surprised and happy to get it (and even numbers of 1911s is bad JuJu), I had teased him for years about stealing one of his "chrome plated sissy pistols."



    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

  14. #28
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    Whoops! Correction. 21st birthday was in 1978. Since I'm 54 the 1987 transposition just doesn't add up.

    Back to the article. Only an opinion but that piece was written for idiots. If one knows his way around the 1911 like several obviously do who post here on the Forum and he wants to play custom 1911s then great. A more gratifying sub-hobby within shooting sports can't be found. But, the 1911 isn't nearly so mysterious as the article alludes, nor should it engender such a sense of foreboding with regards to dependable function.

    A simple admonition will suffice: "Don't excessively monkey with it!"
    OD* likes this.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    A simple admonition will suffice: "Don't excessively monkey with it!"
    BINGO!
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

  16. #30
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    Here's my take...

    He’s a founding member of the International Defensive Pistol Association and also a member of the American Pistolsmiths Guild.

    When he says he’s seen everything that can go wrong with a 1911, I believe him.

    “Now, I shoot a Glock,” Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.”

    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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