Pre ban assault rifle question

This is a discussion on Pre ban assault rifle question within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I remember reading somewhere (not sure where) that if the rifle is 'pre-ban' even if it is full auto, you can still buy it legally ...

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Thread: Pre ban assault rifle question

  1. #1
    Member Array Erick46590's Avatar
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    Pre ban assault rifle question

    I remember reading somewhere (not sure where) that if the rifle is 'pre-ban' even if it is full auto, you can still buy it legally without a class III license. I have no idea if that information is true, if it is or isn't if you could provide sources that would be great.

    So basically my question is, if i can find a 'pre-ban' ak-47 that is full auto, would it be legal for me to own. I live in Indiana by the way.
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    No, IIRC, it would not be. The assault weapons ban had nothing to do with full auto, and everything to do with cosmetics.

    I am pretty sure the regulation of full auto weapons began in 1934.
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    Negative.
    Any full auto rifle reqiures a Form 4 with a tax stamp.
    Pre Ban in the NFA world means pre-1984. Since then you must be police or military to own a newly manufactured full auto rifle. If you are not, then you can still buy a "preban" but it will be very expensive.

    The AK would be legal for you to own..with the approved Form 4...If it is legal in Indiana.
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    No, IIRC, it would not be. The assault weapons ban had nothing to do with full auto, and everything to do with cosmetics.

    I am pretty sure the regulation of full auto weapons began in 1934.
    I am sorry, but I think you are mistaken.



    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Negative.
    Any full auto rifle reqiures a Form 4 with a tax stamp.
    Pre Ban in the NFA world means pre-1984. Since then you must be police or military to own a newly manufactured full auto rifle. If you are not, then you can still buy a "preban" but it will be very expensive.

    The AK would be legal for you to own..with the approved Form 4...If it is legal in Indiana.
    That is correct
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    Ok, thanks guys. Wasn't sure, thought that'd be a weird and kinda dumb loophole. Besides, they'd probly be kinda hard to come by, but o well. Thanks for clearin that up.
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    So I can't go out and get a class 3 and get a full auto now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CUMMINS View Post
    So I can't go out and get a class 3 and get a full auto now?
    Yes you can get a full auto. No you don't need a class 3 FFL. You do need a federal excise stamp as HotGuns stated. Two ways to go as "I" understand it from the few Class 3's I have talked to. 1. You can buy a rifle mfg. pre 1984 as full auto...bring lots of green backs. 2. You can buy a pre 1984 auto sear/fire control group for an AR...bring lots of green backs and put it in a new AR.
    They also described the process to me to get the sear and/or rifle and even if I had the bucks I wouldn't go through the red tape.
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    "Class 3" is actually a slang term meaning anything NFA, or in real language, short barrelled rifle, short barrelled shotgun, suppressor or AOW which means, any other weapon.

    Technically, Class 3 is a dealer that can deal in anything covered by NFA which means, National Firearms Act, which was an act in 1934 to establish a registration and tax system for any of the above. It was one of the U.S. Governments attempt to curtail anything fun by placing a 200 tax stamp on it. That 200 in 1934 would be equivalant to around 3200 bucks by todays standards.

    Class 3 is a class of SOT or Special Occupational Taxpayer. It costs 500-1000 a year to be able to deal in such.
    Class 2 (which is what I am) is a Manufacturer of such that can deal and manufacture. The advantage is that I get to build cool things to shoot without having to pay a 200 tax each time for every article that I build...I just pay the 500 a year tax instead which is actually a lot cheaper.

    You do not need an FFL to get this stuff, you just have to fill out and complete a Form 4, get it approved and then you can have your fun. Its legal in the free states, in other states where socialists,feeble minded politicians and mobsters rule, they arent.

    So, yes, you can go out and get a full auto if you can afford it. That full auto has to have been built before 1984, which is when Congress got stupid and passed another ban that did nothing to combat crime, instead it just combats ownership by making machine guns much more expensive to own since there are a limitied number of them and its all about supply (which isnt much) but demand( which is alot). When the demand is greater than the supply, you can pretty much name your price.

    I didnt mean to give an economics lesson here, but to explain why things are the way they are. The 200 transfer tax to own one isnt quite the hurdle that it was back when money was actually based on Gold and not the fake crap that we have been using since we got off of the gold standard.

    The pitiful thing is that full auto generally dosent cost much more to build than semi auto, in fact, at one time UZI's were imported from Israel and the semi's costed more than the full auto because the guns manufactured were select fire, and the full autos had to be modified to semi to be legal to import into the U.S.

    This is one of but gazillions of examples of idiots in Congress hosing thing up.
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    1984 or 1986?


    The annoying thing is that a transferrable FA runs 20 to 30 times or more what a new dealer restricted example of the same gun costs. I doubt it will ever change, unless one of two things happens. Either the individual state "freedom" laws work out, or I get elected to make the laws...
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    So what about these guns that are 2009 and newer that I've seen in full auto?

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    So what about these guns that are 2009 and newer that I've seen in full auto?
    The new guns that you see are can only be sold to the military or police. Unless, what you are seeing is a "dealer sample".

    As an 07 Manufacturer with a SOT, I can build anything that I want and call it a dealer sample. Lots of 07's have their own full autos that stay on the books as such. As long as it is in their care it is legal for them to own or build, or even convert a semi into a select fire. Some do it because they like them, some rent them out at ranges for people to shoot, others build them to show to a police dept that may be interested in purchasing some.
    If sold to a police dept or to the military, they must be purchased with an official letterhead and they are exempt from paying the 200 tax because the law specifically exempts them.

    Many police depts buy these guns and then issue them to officers as part of their gear. They can use them as long as that particular officer stays employed by that agency, when he leaves he gives the gun up because the agency itself is the legal owner.

    There are more lies and rumours floating around about this stuff than there are truths and good solid info is hard to find.
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    Not to Hijack the thread but since we are discussing NFA items I had a question about SBRs. Say I found an SBR upper that I wanted to attach to a lower I have. Would the upper be the only thing that needed a Tax stamp or would I have to get a complete SBR? I ask this because the lower is what the ATF actually considers to be the firearm portion of the AR correct?
    Last edited by beni; July 7th, 2011 at 08:58 PM. Reason: fixed typo

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    The lower is what you actually SBR since it has a serial number already on it. You can do a Form 1 on it since you already have it, and when it comes back you just attach the SBR upper to it and are good to go. You can swap it our with any SBR upper or even put your longer barrelled upper on it.

    The Form 1 is for do ity yourselfers. Since all you want to do is pin and upper on it, you just fill out the paper and send it in with a check. When it comes back you are legal to do whatever you want to.
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