Colts

This is a discussion on Colts within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; According to the "books" you've got the year right. That is a Sunday-Go-To-Meeting grade Colt right there. Also known as a "Barbeque Gun." That style ...

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 59 of 59
Like Tree18Likes

Thread: Colts

  1. #46
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,894
    According to the "books" you've got the year right. That is a Sunday-Go-To-Meeting grade Colt right there. Also known as a "Barbeque Gun." That style of engraving is sometimes known as "pawn shop" or "Mexican" engraving. It is reminiscent of the engraving that could be ordered from Wolf & Klar, the large distributor out of Fort Worth, Texas, during the pre-war years. Who knows? That Colt is in Texas at present and if it's always been in Texas it could have originally shipped to Wolf & Klar. Or perhaps Topperweins in downtown San Antonio, the gun shop and hardware store owned by famed Winchester exhibition shooter Ad Toepperwein. Toepperwein Or William Crite's gun store which was situated half a block away on Larado, just around the corner from Toepperwein's, which was located on Houston street about where a CVS pharmacy is now situated.

    Sounds like you may have acquired some .38-40 loads filled with black powder. Would have been authentic to fire as that was the original propellent for the cartridge. A revolver is pretty messy to clean up after even only six are fired. The .38-40 cartridge is a pretty fair ol' thumper of a round, fully equivalent to the .40 S&W in terminal ballistics.

    Here's it's older brother, a 4-3/4-inch .38 WCF (.38-40) Colt Single Action Army originally shipped to Hibbard, Spencer, Bartlett & Company in Chicago in 1905. Kinda sad looking, it's mechanics are still first rate.
    GrimeyGoose likes this.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #47
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    2,188
    A few of Colts I own...





    And an interesting Sistema Colt



    I think I have refinished this one since this picture but cannot find a current picture. I redid it in all Black with Norrell molly resin

  4. #48
    New Member Array GrimeyGoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9
    Brian, thanks for the Ad Toepperwein link. That was fascinating! My father lives on Toepperwein Rd and I'd idly wondered at it's origin, I'm betting it is from that man's name. Such history! I thank you again for all the bite size chunks of history you throw out here for the rest of us.

  5. #49
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,894
    I don't know if I ever posted this here on Defensive Carry before but the reason I became aware of Toepperwein, his gun shop, and his neighbor Crites' gun shop was because of this fellow. He knew Ad Toepperwein personally and spent a number of hours visiting with him. Actually his dad and Ad Toepperwein were good friends.
    __________________________________________________ __



    When my friend Cres Lawson began to rapidly loose his vision due to macular degeneration he asked me if there were a few of his guns that I'd like to have. I'd long admired his Colt Woodsman which had provided him with such enjoyment and was the basis for some of his stories. He'd given it a lifetime of careful use and loving maintenance attention. He'd purchased the Woodsman in the summer of 1928 while working at the William Crites gun shop in downtown San Antonio, Texas.

    Cres worked at Mr. Crites' shop several years, always in the summer between semesters of attending a military school in Kerrvile, Texas and latter when attending the University of Texas (where he studied under and came to personally know J. Frank Dobie of Texas literature fame). Of course Cres spent a lot of his earnings in the shop. I have the honor of owning several of these purchases.

    Cres wanted a good quality .22 pistol to compliment the Colt New Service Model 1909 .45 Colt his father purchased for him from the San Antonio Arsenal in 1920. The family had a huge ranch deep in Mexico and spent a couple of months down there each winter hunting deer, collecting the rents and crop payments from the Mexican tenants. A young man could have a time with a .22 pistol while roaming the ranch.



    Mr. Crites didn't have a Woodsman in stock but told Cres he'd order one. By and by it arrived and Cres was excited to see it. Mr. Crites told Cres that he''d have to charge him full retail price on this particular purchase. Cres had been used to the generous discount that Mr. Crites had always provided but didn't quibble and respectfully paid the $32 price for the pistol. He though it a bit strange but said no more about it. He dedicated himself to shooting only ammunition featuring noncorrosive priming (recall that Clean-Bore priming had only come out the year before) in the gun and cleaning it with Winchester Crystal Cleaner. He purchased a Heiser holster and a Boyt leather, fleece-lined, zippered pistol case for his new .22 pistol. He and the pistol went on to have many adventures in Mexico and on their ranch in Kerrvile.

    Fast forward to 1994 when he offered to sell his treasured Colt to me. It was in excellent used condition. I offered him $600 for the pistol and he said: "No, I only paid $32 for it brand new. You can have it for $200." I replied: "No, that isn't fair to you. It's an outstanding example of a Woodsman and you've kept it so well that you should receive a fair price. I'll give you $500 for it. "Naw" he said: "It's only shooter and I want you to have it. I'll take $300 for it." "Now Cres, that's not right:" I said. "That gun in that condition is worth every bit of $600 on the present market. Would you at least take $450 for it. I'd be honored to have it to remember all your tales and you know it'd be going to a good home." He replied: "You're the only other person I've ever seen that was as fastidious about his gun maintenance as I am. I want you to have it and I won't take more than $400 for the gun." The deal was done. We were to go through this same pattern of "reverse bargaining" several more times on his fine firearms.

    I queried him in detail about the history of the Woodsman, the purchase and some of the tales he'd told, writing them down. Some 66 years later he was still puzzled why Mr. Crites had made him purchase the pistol for full list price.

    A year or two later I got around to ordering a factory letter from Colt. The day it arrived in the mail I excitedly took the envelope to Cres's house so we could share its contents. The letter cleared up the matter of the retail price for Cres when I first read it aloud to him. He chuckled satisfyingly. The letter said the Woodsman was shipped to the Toepperwein Hardware Company, San Antonio, Texas in June of 1928.


    An actual pamphlet from a Toepperwein shooting exhibition that Cres had around the house.


    Cres explained: "Back then Ad Toepperwein of Winchester exhibition shooting fame ran a gun shop and hardware around the corner from Mr. Crites' establishment in downtown San Antonio. They were friendly competitors and frequented each other's shops almost daily when Toepperwein wasn't away on business. A back alley connected the two shops. Many times on slow days we three would sit around talking business, politics, guns and hunting. It is obvious that Mr. Crites only went around the corner to Toepperweins to get me that Woodsman. Toepperwein must have charged him full price so he charged me."



    Cres got a big kick out of finding out why Mr. Crites charged him full price for the Woodsman way back in 1928.

    Cres passed away in late November of 2001 at 95 years of age. He was my best gun crony. I've got the Woodsman and some great memories and stories to go with it. The opportunity to share a factory letter from a firearm from the "classic"days of firearms manufacturing with the original owner was almost unique and was an event that I wouldn't take for.


    The Woodsman in its H. H. Heiser holster.


    The Woodsman with the fleece-lined leather Boyt soft case that it's always called home.



    A scan of an old photo of the two of us and a stuffed "Christmas" armadillo, the subject of another story and another Colt.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    2,188
    Great story Brian. Thanks for sharing it with us. RIP Mr. Lawson. One wonders why Crites got it from Toepperwein in stead of ordering it himself?

  7. #51
    Distinguished Member Array lchamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Florida's Space Coast.
    Posts
    1,602
    Gee, wife and I were firing my Colt Woodsman last week. I bought it in 1964 or so. I have fired thousands of rounds through it and it still works perfectly.

  8. #52
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,894
    Thanks cphillip.

    Hare to say from 84 years away but perhaps Toepperwein's was the regional distributor for Colt. I seem to recall my friend mentioning that he was a Winchester distributor. I wouldn't have thought that factory direct orders would have been much of a problem in that era of freedom from draconian regulation connected with firearms purchases.

    Perhaps Mr. Crites just didn't want to bother with ordering one out if he had knowledge that Toepperwein had a couple of Woodsman pistols on order and one could be made available.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  9. #53
    New Member Array GrimeyGoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9
    Brian, thanks for the Ad Toepperwein link. That was fascinating! My father lives on Toepperwein Rd and I'd idly wondered at it's origin, I'm betting it is from that man's name. Such history! I thank you again for all the bite size chunks of history you throw out here for the rest of us.

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,062
    I'll get some pics on here when I can, but my father gave me my great grandfathers Colt lightning and I have it and it still shoots well. Double action still works as well . It has two distinct notches cut in the grip that leave me fantasizing about their meaning, especially as he was a lawman back in the Midwest. It isn't in the greatest shape, ill have to pull it out and check it out. Loving the gun porn and history lessons!
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

  11. #55
    New Member Array GrimeyGoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9
    Just had another thought.... I've always seen these pistols as they are here. I don't know what they may SHOULD look like. In particular the .41. Was that one originally blued? If so, I am only just realized how far it has,...ah, matured (?) over the years.
    Thinkin I need to find a good "Care and Feeding of Old Colts" manual somewhere so I don't do any harm.

    I used some Flitz polish on the SAA, I didn't do anything wrong there, did I?

  12. #56
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,894
    Light Flitz'ing won't hurt a nickel finish as long as one doesn't get too hot and heavy with polishing the surface finish or resort to Flitz frequently.

    For the old .41 Colt New Army with the blue-turned-brown finish the best thing is to just be certain all active rust is killed. Heavily working the surface finish with steel wool, harsh polishes, stainless steel brushes and such will do more harm than good. Once the brown color is exchanged for bright metal then one has taken things too far.

    A soak for a few days in Kroil Penetrating-Lubricating Oils or something like Liquid Wrench Liquid Wrench | A wrench for every job penetrating oil, applied to the exterior surfaces with a rag soppy with the stuff will penetrate any active rust. Then wipe down or polish with a shop towel with spot applications of the penetrating oil of choice on stubborn rust patches followed by gently scrubbing those patches with a bronze (never stainless steel) brush. Or, one may use copper wool (never steel wool)Copper Wool Pad. This is about the best one can do short of stripping, re-polishing and refinishing the piece. A refinish can't duplicate the rich and deep carbonia blue finish that pre-World War I Colts featured so will look worse (in my view) than factory original, distressed but unfooled with remaining finish.

    Just remember that if one works hard enough on rust patches to remove all rust he'll end up with bright metal and pitting which is ugly.

    Following up on the cleaning method mentioned above by using RIG (Rust Inhibiting Grease) RIG® UNIVERSAL GUN GREASE | Brownells. Apply a thin coating to exterior surfaces before putting the revolver away. Keeping the revolver stored with the preservative grease this way and over a year or two it will take on a pleasing warm antique tone.

    RIG's an old firearms maintenance product that is the absolute best stuff ever made for protecting blued firearms' exterior surfaces from oxidation. Nothing better. RIG isn't a lubricating grease at all but is a preservative grease. It doesn't take a heavy coat either. There are all sorts of modern high-tech, gimmick-y products out there sold to protect firearms. None can beat RIG because perfection can't be topped.

    Your .41 revolver was eye-popping gorgeous when it was new. Gorgeous in a way that will never be seen again on production handguns. See this link for an example. http://www.coltautos.com/DA/NewArmyN...vyci_86905.htm And remember, this was the way all of them left the factory in that era unless they were nickel plated. The blue on a nice Colt of the pre-World War I era is so deep that it appears that one could just dive into it. Pythons ain't got nothin' on the degree of finish of early Colts. The early Smith & Wessons were very similar though Colt did have Smith & Wesson slightly beat on polish and bluing work.

    Photos really don't do justice to the finish.

    A really early Colt Government Model http://www.coltautos.com/1911gm_C403_1912.htm
    A Colt Model 1905. The original .45 ACP and the predecessor to the 1911. http://www.coltautos.com/1905ci_246.htm
    A Colt New Service revolver http://www.coltautos.com/DA/NewServi...getci_5845.htm
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  13. #57
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,894
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon10125 View Post
    I'll get some pics on here when I can, but my father gave me my great grandfathers Colt lightning and I have it and it still shoots well. Double action still works as well . It has two distinct notches cut in the grip that leave me fantasizing about their meaning, especially as he was a lawman back in the Midwest. It isn't in the greatest shape, ill have to pull it out and check it out. Loving the gun porn and history lessons!
    Please do put up a photo or two of the Lightning. I love those things for some reason. They have long been reputed to be delicate and prone to getting out of order but I always wanted one that I could shoot. When I was around 21 or so I had a honey hole for old handguns in a pawn shop on South Main in Fort Worth, Texas. I obtained several there and still have a Colt Model 1911 I got there. They used to have old Colt Lightnings (.38 cal.) and Thunderers (.41 cal.) in there for $75 plus or minus, depending on how much finish remained. Some looked pretty good. They must have been slow movers as they laid in the case forever. I never got one as I'd already learned of their reputation for breaking. Now I wish I'd bought them all, greased them up, and put them away. A decent Lightning or Thunderer is worth pretty big money.

    I used to have a bank customer who would tell me about her grandfather's "cap 'n ball" Colt that she'd inherited and kept in her attic. One day I asked her to bring it by the bank and show it to me. She balked at the thought of bringing it in but I told her just to stick it in a sack and come on in (small rural Texas bank) so she did. I opened the paper bag she put it in to find a pristine Colt D.A. .38 "Lightining" revolver rather than a percussion Colt. This one either had the longest standard production barrel or had a special order long barrel for it seemed uncommonly long. She didn't have a box or any accessories to go with it but the revolver appeared new and unfired. I've never seen another that nice since. Its condition put this one in the shade Antique Arms, Inc. - Colt Model 1877 Lightning Revolver w/ Etched Panel and it had a longer barrel too.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  14. #58
    OD*
    OD* is offline
    Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Coopersville
    Posts
    10,596
    Fantastic posts, Bryan.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array TWO GUNS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    2,612
    I love the SAA.
    Have Fun and Shoot Straight !!

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

colt 1911 ww1 reproduction for sale

,
colt factory refinished official police
,
colt new service bbq revolver
,

colt official police 38 special serial numbers

,

colt official police serial numbers

,
colt wolf and klar1925 saa
,
refinished 1944 colt official police
,
single action colt shipped to wolf & klar ft worth tx
,
store that has the 175th anniversary colt single action amy
,
why are colts detective so sought after
,
wolf and klar ft. worth tx
,
wolf and klar ft. worth tx colt
Click on a term to search for related topics.