Problems with Sig (only) - Page 2

Problems with Sig (only)

This is a discussion on Problems with Sig (only) within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by 21bubba Sounds to me like the issue is with the wife not the Sigs. A P239 is a single stack gun with ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Sounds to me like the issue is with the wife not the Sigs.

    A P239 is a single stack gun with one of the smallest grips that Sig makes. This leads me to believe she is having a grip induced problem. Not everyone can shoot a Sig, everyone just wishes they could.
    Wife can't shoot a Sig, time for new wife.




    Seriously though, get her a Glock, get what you want and call it a day, its her, not the gun. She handles Glocks well, get her a Glock and don't make her angry or she may show you her skills with one :)
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  2. #17
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    Ditto on the limp wrist. I see it alot in new shooters with both men and woman. Its a fairly common problem that can be frustrating to diagnose.

    The woman picks up the gun, after coaching from her husband and she attempts to fire it. She busts off one or two shots and it starts hanging up. The husband, thinking it to be the gun, takes the gun, loads another mag and dumps the mag on target with no issues at all. Then he fires another mag and hand its off to the wife who shoots it again and it hangs up again. The husband without really understanding the issue, gets impatient with the wife, trys to forceably coach her and the wife gets frustrated with the husband for not being patient with her. She's probably not just real comfortable with the idea of shooting anyway and she is somewhat apprehensive and overly cautious about the whole thing.She hasnt come to terms yet of shooting a gun at a target with the idea of getting good enough to use it to kill someone and its not something that she really wants to confront or even think about.

    One of the characteristics of the "limp wrist" is the "stove pipe" where the round that is ejected gets hung up in the slide and sticks straight up. What is happening is that the arm and hand are soaking up much of the energy that the slide uses to eject the round, making it more difficult for the pistol to work properly.

    If the gun seems to be working properly for everyone else that shoots it, then its not the gun, its the shooter.With just a bit of coaching the problem can be fixed once its figured out.

    Take a firm grip on the gun, extend the arm and stiffen up the wrist and elbow. It doesnt have to be board stiff, just stiff enough so that it doesnt absorb all the energy from the firing process. Its not hard to do and it usually comes easy once that person is familiar with the gun and shooting in general.

    While it is true that some guns are more prone to "limp wristing" than others, its usally just a simple matter of diagnosing it and correcting the issue...and its a whole lot cheaper than cycling through guns to see what works and what doesnt.
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    If this is a range gun, chances are the springs need replacing...ammo--possible factor...limp wresting--also possible. I would try to find another SIG to shoot, different ammo. Maybe that ammo does not work for that gun. Does the gun do the same for someone else? (other than the OP?).
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  4. #19
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    It is possible that the grip angle and the width of the grip are not conducive to you wife holding the gun properly. I don't like shooting Sigs because of the grip. The simple fix is to let her shoot something that works for her. If she rocks a Glock then get her a Glock to shoot.

    Not every hand, nor every gun is the same. We all have favorite guns or guns that we just shoot better than others. Go with what works best.
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  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Ditto on the limp wrist. I see it alot in new shooters with both men and woman. Its a fairly common problem that can be frustrating to diagnose.
    I agree that it is a limp wrist effect. It seems, though, that there is something about those two models that is exacerbating the problem, which is unfortunate because otherwise she liked them.

    The woman picks up the gun, after coaching from her husband and she attempts to fire it. She busts off one or two shots and it starts hanging up.
    That only happened with the titanium j-frame .38. We tried it because it was one of the top carry recommendations by every instructor there. It was too much recoil with too little mass for her. I myself found the trigger weight to be extreme to where it impacted my accuracy. For me, I think one would be fine as a BUG, but wouldn't choose it as my primary.
    The husband, thinking it to be the gun, takes the gun, loads another mag and dumps the mag on target with no issues at all. Then he fires another mag and hand its off to the wife who shoots it again and it hangs up again. The husband without really understanding the issue, gets impatient with the wife, trys to forceably coach her and the wife gets frustrated with the husband for not being patient with her.
    I am sorry, but this is jumping to an incorrect conclusion. One that if taken other than as a common generalization, is belittling. While I appreciate your advice and taking the time to respond, I would appreciate it more if you would please not make such assumptions about me. I have been extra patient with her and recognizing both that I don't have the experience to properly diagnose the mechanics of her problem and that in trying to do so may become frustrated myself, my response has been to ask her to put the gun down and to get one of the range instructors to assist with the diagnosis.
    She's probably not just real comfortable with the idea of shooting anyway and she is somewhat apprehensive and overly cautious about the whole thing.She hasn't come to terms yet of shooting a gun at a target with the idea of getting good enough to use it to kill someone and its not something that she really wants to confront or even think about.
    Quite the contrary in fact, she has taken to it with surprising gusto. I could summarize her attitude with the quote of "it is a very empowering experience" and is "a great equalizer against an attacker" and has the attitude of "I am not going to become a victim or a statistic".
    One of the characteristics of the "limp wrist" is the "stove pipe" where the round that is ejected gets hung up in the slide and sticks straight up. What is happening is that the arm and hand are soaking up much of the energy that the slide uses to eject the round, making it more difficult for the pistol to work properly.
    We have seen that happen too.
    If the gun seems to be working properly for everyone else that shoots it, then its not the gun, its the shooter.With just a bit of coaching the problem can be fixed once its figured out.

    Take a firm grip on the gun, extend the arm and stiffen up the wrist and elbow. It doesnt have to be board stiff, just stiff enough so that it doesnt absorb all the energy from the firing process. Its not hard to do and it usually comes easy once that person is familiar with the gun and shooting in general.
    That has been the advice from the range operators. She is rapidly getting better as we practice and it is noticeable both in her accuracy and handling proficiency. However, when she shoots 100 rounds in a session, trying a couple of different guns and only experiences the trouble with one that has given the same trouble of past occasions, I am inclined to think that there is something particular at work here that has yet to be diagnosed. It very well may be as others have said, a difference in the grip or worn springs in combination with a weaker wrist and grip.

    While it is true that some guns are more prone to "limp wristing" than others, its usally just a simple matter of diagnosing it and correcting the issue...and its a whole lot cheaper than cycling through guns to see what works and what doesnt.
    One of the things we really like about this range is that they have a good selection for rent. It is a $6 charge and for that you can try as many of the models as you would like. We are currently waiting for our CC licenses to be processed, which also double as purchase licenses. One of the things we are trying to do while waiting is get a sense of what we like and don't like, as well as determine which stores in our area (and there are quite a few) are reputable and have decent pricing.

  6. #21
    Member Array OldMick's Avatar
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    My guess (without seeing the gun) would be the range rental is poorly maintained; very dirty internally, poorly lubed and may well need new springs. When I took the Sig Armorers course several years ago the instructor mentioned that approximately 90% of the guns returned to Sig for operating issues such as stoppages were "fixed" by a complete detail strip and cleaning.

    And not fer nuttin' I have a 229 DAK and a 239. The 239 has well over 15,000 rounds downrange -0- stoppages. I know that sounds unlikely to some, but it's true. The secret; keeping it cleaned and well-lubed, annual detail strip, clean and spring changes.

  7. #22
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    I don't think HotGuns was talking directly about you or your wife, but what he said is just a common theme.

    Even though I feel "empowered" and generally more confident when shooting, I do get frustrated when men (my husband and cocky RSO's) try to correct me. That probably causes me to be worse than when I first made the mistake. What I found that helped me with my grip (other than switching to a very slim weapon) is watching other women shoot and tutorials on YouTube.

    Once you and your wife get your permits and purchase your firearm of choice, buy some snap caps and practice at home. She's going to want to work on clearing a malfunction if she can't get that grip right. Lord knows I've had to learn and my husband still gets a little mad every time I jam something up.

    SigGuy229, I had the same thing happen to me with a P229, but I hope to go shoot it again since I've cleaned it really well. Maybe this time I'll hold on a little tighter too!

  8. #23
    Member Array Jesters Dead's Avatar
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    It sounds to me like a combination of two things. Poorly-maintained range guns and limp-wristing by the shooter. Some manufacturer's weapons are more prone to stove-pipes or suffer more FTEs because of limp-wristing or poor grip technique in general. How would you describe her grip?

    Check out this great video on proper pistol grip technique by pro shooting stud Todd Jarrett:

  9. #24
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    Weak ammo + (Rental guns shot by people who beat them like rented mules x inadaquate cleaning^failure to replace the recoil spring)/inadaquate grip = Your Problem

  10. #25
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    So autos have to be held "just right" to function properly, and it seems as if your wife isn't holding it "just right." True, as a rental it probably needs a good cleaning and possibly new springs; and true, with practice your wife may overcome the problem with the Sig, but there are many other makes that aren't so sensitive and care less how they're held. More forgiving. You wouldn't want her to forget and go back to an old habit if SHTF.

    Unless she can try a different Sig, perhaps a privately owned one, I think you'd be best off to look at a different name brand. My son has several Sigs and has never had an issue with any of them. But then he trains and trains and trains...
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  11. #26
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    I am sorry, but this is jumping to an incorrect conclusion. One that if taken other than as a common generalization, is belittling. While I appreciate your advice and taking the time to respond, I would appreciate it more if you would please not make such assumptions about me. I have been extra patient with her and recognizing both that I don't have the experience to properly diagnose the mechanics of her problem and that in trying to do so may become frustrated myself, my response has been to ask her to put the gun down and to get one of the range instructors to assist with the diagnosis.
    No assumptions about YOU and definitaly not meant to belittle.My apologies if you took it as such.
    You need to loosen up a bit,especially when talking about guns and how to shoot them on the internet.


    I don't think HotGuns was talking directly about you or your wife, but what he said is just a common theme.
    That is exactly correct.

    It is a generalization and a common theme that has been around since guns have been shot.

    Quite the contrary in fact, she has taken to it with surprising gusto. I could summarize her attitude with the quote of "it is a very empowering experience" and is "a great equalizer against an attacker" and has the attitude of "I am not going to become a victim or a statistic".
    It sounds like she is ahead of the curve. Sometimes the mental hurdle is much harder to get over than the actual shooting experience.

    One of the things we really like about this range is that they have a good selection for rent. It is a $6 charge and for that you can try as many of the models as you would like. We are currently waiting for our CC licenses to be processed, which also double as purchase licenses. One of the things we are trying to do while waiting is get a sense of what we like and don't like, as well as determine which stores in our area (and there are quite a few) are reputable and have decent pricing.
    That is the best way to do it. Shooting a gun and figuring out what fits your hand before you buy a gun will save you lots of money. There is nothing like knowing how the gun fits the hand and how it shoots. All the internet advice on what gun shoots best is worthless if the gun dosent fit the hand. Sounds like you both have a good grasp on it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    My wife read this thread and felt exonerated to see that she isn't the only one who has had trouble with the Sigs, thanks Andriss, you made her happy!
    Jesters Dead, thank you for the video link. I am sure that stance and grip are often overlooked and more important than most think. They are also not things that come easy. The instructors have always stressed a grip strength of about a firm handshake and making sure that the gun is seated high in the web of the hand between the thumb and first finger while locking your arms out to avoid absorbing the recoil. I suspect that with more, and more, practice she will continue to get better. In my opinion, she has already made remarkable progress seeing as when she qualified for the CC license she put 40 out of 50 in the scoring part of the target at 7 yards (using a .38 revolver with a 4" barrel). Two weeks ago, if I recall correctly, she had 49 out of 50 in the score area and didn't have this problem last time at all.

    @Hotguns, no worries. Thankyou for clarifying though. I really wasn't certain how to take your post and whether or not you were Trolling, which would have been out of place with your credentials and longevity here. I really do want my wife to take to and enjoying shooting, not use it as an opportunity to show off having bigger bullocks.

  13. #28
    Member Array Andriss's Avatar
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    No problem! I'm glad that your wife feels a little better and is making great progress! There is always a lot to learn being a new gun-owner.

    Start watching videos on these channels too:
    Limalife
    Faliaphotography

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Many moons ago I purchased a sig p229 (.40) based on repuation alone. What a wonderful shooting gun! It 'rode' well in any holster and fit my hand like it belonged there.

    But that gun gave me FITS!

    After seven to ten rounds through it the dang thing would start malfunctioning....stovepips, FTF, FTE.....you name it, it happened. After spending almost as much to 'fix' it as I originally paid for it (but with NO improvements in performance), I put it pasture and got a glock.

    dukalmighty has it exactly right, if you do not have 100% confidence in your chosen platform, ditch it! Granted it was a range rental and it's treated as such, but if getting her hands around another sig isn't an option, go with something else.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  15. #30
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    If you are happy with the quality of Sig I would try another 9MM model, the 226 comes in 9mm, so does the 2022 aka the Sig Pro, and the 250. The 228 might be in 9mm as well. I have a 226 and a 250 and if the 229's grip is the problem for you I would suggest the 250, still a double stack but it has a considerably smaller grip size over the 229. I love my 250 and my wife can handle it quite well. Don't give up on sig, keep trying different models, they are an amazing manufacturer.

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