I work with a guy who I just DO NOT understand.

[BugDude]

I'll never understand perspectives such as that either. I have no desire to understand them. I accept there are people with ideas that are completely foreign to me...across a broad spectrum of subjects. Unfortunately, a lot of those people are in influential positions. Sometimes, all you can do is shake your head and say, "Really???"

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[alachner]

His line of thinking would change in a heartbeat as soon as he sees an attacker with a knife charging at his wife or kids with the intent to kill them. Humans have a natural instinct to protect their own when their lives are in danger. If he doesn't, then he's a coward or he doesn't care for his loved ones.

In my case, I'm willing to do anything to save my loved ones or die trying.

[jem102]

Natural selection or birth of a neo-conservative coming...

Not only don't I understand people like this, I don't trust people like this. Seriously. They are liars.

Very true. When you are around them you can sense it.

[ppkheat]

Mike. They are out there.

Yep, I personally know two of them like that, though neither are liberal at all, in fact both are very conservative and very well educated. I don't think either would pro-actively defend themselves, it's not in their mindset. I guess that "survival" would kick in if they could tell that their death was imminent.

I noticed that both are very "straight arrows" type of guys, and I believe they have an overwhelming fear of dealing with their involvement in the aftermath of a shooting, especially one that "went bad". Both are pro 2A and both are very supportive that I CCW.

Personally I have a fear in the aftermath of a shooting too, and that would be that the BG is still standing, and I'm dead on the ground.

Note to BG's.......Don't mess with my life expectency.

[goldshellback]

Mike, I'm with you on this. My personal 'confliction' right now is my youngest daughter. She's turning into an on-again, off-again little pasificist. An 11th grader this year, she's delved into being a vegitarian......but just couldn't give up hot pockets and some of her other favorite foods. She can't STAND me 'killing' anything....me going fishing and cleaning my catch, dispatching the ocasional rattlesnake, boiling the live crabs (that she LOVES eating BTW) just destroys her for a little while.

She's questioned my carrying and wether I'd shoot if I 'had to'. She has accepted it and even finds a form of comfort in it, but her 'pulling the trigger' is a very real conflict within her. Hurting anything and/or anyone just isn't an option for her....she thinks. I think she had to have been a liberal hippie in a former life or something. She dosn't want to ever hurt anyone like that, but 'sees' how it 'might' be necessary as well. That gives me hope.

I've worked with people like you discribed......I don't get 'em, but that's their view and beliefs. I don't get too deep into the 'sheep-sheepdog' thing, but that's the simplest explaination I can make (in my mind) for them. They live under the 'protection' of others......father-figures, police, goverment, etc......whoever 'allows' them to 'feel safe'.
'We' know and understand that the falicy of 'feeling safe' is a false sense of self, but to give up that to another 'entity' is so foregin to us as to question it. I only feel safe(er) knowing I have the tools, and have trained with thoes tools, to give me another 'tool' to utilize in my life if it ever became necessary.

I'll never quite understand 'them' either, but all I can do is keep doing........

[Deuce130]

He's an admitted liberal. OK, I get that. I don't agree with his stance on most things as I am just about as far from liberal as you can get. But, tonight the subject of guns and carrying came up. He isn't opposed to carry. he isn't opposed to gun ownership. In fact, he is pretty much on board with all of it. This gave me some hope. But then he drops this little gem on me. He doesn't own a gun (I have no objection to that) and he doesn't want one. In fact, he says if someone wants to break into his house, while he and his wife and child are there and steal his stuff, they must need it more than he does. Further, he doesn't think he could ever hurt another person, much less shoot someone, even if they are actively trying to kill him or his family!

I have to admit, I was stunned. I held my tongue but I have to tell you guys, I have a wife and 5 kids. I think it is my duty as a husband and father to protect my family in any way I can and every way I need to. The very idea of not being able to kill someone who is trying to kill my family is completely alien to me. And I honestly think that if you feel you could never hurt another person to stop them from trying to kill your child that you shouldn't be a parent.

I just don't understand this line of thought. Not, at, all.

I wonder how this guy's wife feels about this?? "Gee, thanks, honey...I think." Might be time to find a new mate. A man who won't protect his kids? I can't see too many women wanting to pair up with this dude.

[archer51]

I've known people like that. There is no "understanding" them. You just let them live in their little make believe world and go on with life.

I've often wondered how many of them would actually stand by and be killed, or let a loved one be killed, if they were REALLY faced with the situation?

[Inspector71]

Maybe he's just trying to influence his co-workers with a holier than thou image? Trying to convince another person how to think or feel is a failing strategy. Just don't let him have an influence on how you feel is what's important here. Someday he may change his outlook, then again maybe not. All depends on how his cookies may crumble as time marches on.

[Footslogger]

Sometimes stuff like this is just conversational blather. He is just saying words without truly engaging his brain on the topic. He will just go home and read his Rachel Maddow blog and likely never bother himself with topics that he and others consider unpleasant. I do the same thing but with topics I perceive as unimportant, like Paris Hilton or where the best tanning beds are.

[bps3040]

They are out there.My ex-wife would not carry pepper spray, because it might blind the person! I asked, what if that person was trying to rape you, she said she did not care. Her whole family was that way!

[HKinNY]

You may want to suggest a site for him. Corned Cat. They have alot of great info. Half way kidding. Is there a chance of converting his wife? I would post an ad on craiglist to help him out. If you needs are greater than mine I live at 123 main st please stop by and pick-up what ever you need.

I am going home to my family one way or another.

[JoJoGunn]

Mike,

Mirroring others comments, they are out there, they live among us, and we who take seriously the defense of self and family will never understand that type of mentality. How a man can curl up into a fetal position with his head in his hands and allow someone to kill his family is beyond comprehension.

That is until the event happens that changes the thought process, and the "law of the jungle" attitude kicks in. Even if the male of the pack doesn't kick in, mama surely will. If your co-worker won't step up to the job, we know the female with her protective nature would turn into a monster to protect her young. It is that simple and may surprise your co-worker to even consider the possibility.

There are some things that we may never know what the answer will be.

[RmScadd]

I think Canav844 (and others) have good points. I see a slightly different point in addition to those already pointed out.

Many people (Christians in particular) interpret the Old Testament command of "Thou shalt not kill" to mean killing under any circumstances. That view is compounded by the instructions of Jesus for people to turn the other cheek when slapped or to give someone their coat when they are asked for their shirt.

In reality the Old Testament passage is talking about murder. Self defense is not a consideration in that passage. The Old Testament is also clearly in favor of capital punishment for crimes such as kidnapping or rape, so someone using deadly force to prevent either of these is in line with the true teaching of the Old Testament. In the New Testament, Jesus is talking about someone attacking or taking from you because of your spiritual beliefs, not about the every day defense of self or family or possessions.

Some people become complete pacifists because of these misunderstandings and truly believe they are doing the Christian thing when they oppose killing under any circumstances. A better understanding of the Bible will free people to feel morally correct in defending themselves or their families. I have been on the pacifist side to some extent, but with a better understanding of what the scripture says I am now very much on the side of defense of self and family. I do not agree with the pacifists but I do understand why they believe that way. I also feel sorry for them that they are setting themselves up for some possibly terrible situations and a lifetime of remorse if the worst happens to them or a loved one.

I hope this post is not too "religious" but I believe it is a true response to the original post of why some people are such complete pacifists.

[Sig35seven]

I don't really care if he wants to defend himself. If not... oh well, that's his problem.

Why on earth would you let this guys attitude towards his own self defense bother you? It's like getting angry at people that don't like sausage on their pizza.

I do know a conservative who wouldn't hurt/kill anyone because of his religious beliefs. He believes he could convince the BG to back down and listen to reason. He really tries to think about 'what would Jesus do' and follows that path. To each their own.

[Harryball]

Mike, he will figure it out when its to late. Just keep giving him info, maybe the light bulb will kick on...