Gun sale across state line

This is a discussion on Gun sale across state line within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I met a guy at my training this weekend whose gun broke during the class. He now likes Glocks and is interested in purchasing one ...

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Thread: Gun sale across state line

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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Gun sale across state line

    I met a guy at my training this weekend whose gun broke during the class. He now likes Glocks and is interested in purchasing one of mine. He lives in Washington, I live in Oregon. Anyone know the rules about private party sales across state lines? What if he comes to Oregon to buy it?
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    You have to go through at least a FFL in the purchasers state of residence. Also check your state laws for additional restrictions on firearms sales. Usually, you would take the handgun to a FFL in your state and they would send it to a FFL in the purchasers state but sometimes a FFL will accept a firearm from an out of state resident. It's not law that they can't but many prefer not to deal with out of state residences.

    ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

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    My understanding is, it doesn't matter if it is a private sale or not. With a handgun it has to go through a FFL and a BATFE for 4473 completed, along with the background check.
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    Its really not a big deal. Most any FFL holder will ship it to another FFL guy so your buyer can have it in 2-3 days. Around here the cost runs 30-45 bucks unless its being shipped overnight. The buyer will also have to pay the receiving FFL guy so factor those costs.
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    Private party sales are just that...private party sales. There is no law against it.
    Yet.
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Private party sales are just that...private party sales. There is no law against it.
    Yet.
    No law against it as long as you go through a FFL in the receiver's state when both parties do not reside in the same state as in the OPs situation.
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    NEGATIVE.

    That would be true if you were an FFL.

    Private partys have no such restrictions...unless it is required by state law.
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    NEGATIVE.

    That would be true if you were an FFL.

    Private partys have no such restrictions...unless it is required by state law.
    No sir, you are incorrect, the ATF requires a form 4473 for ANY firearm transferred between residents of different states. Private or dealer sales make no difference. The only time you are not required to do this is when both parties reside in the same state and it is a private transfer.

    ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

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    You are partially correct. According to our local ATF agent a face to face transfer, if both parties are legal will not require any record keeping. For one, they wont have a 4473 to deal with, nor will they do a background check unless they are NICS certified which they wont be. To ship from one state to another would require a dealer. A face to face would not. A private party transfer is just that,a private party transfer and it occurs around this country quite often. We just had this conversation a few months ago. It is not illegal for someone to sell a gun to someone else that lives in another state if you are an unlicensed( meaning no FFL) individual, as long as it is face to face and the individual is not a prohibited person.
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    You are partially correct. According to our local ATF agent a face to face transfer, if both parties are legal will not require any record keeping. For one, they wont have a 4473 to deal with, nor will they do a background check unless they are NICS certified which they wont be. To ship from one state to another would require a dealer. A face to face would not. A private party transfer is just that,a private party transfer and it occurs around this country quite often. We just had this conversation a few months ago. It is not illegal for someone to sell a gun to someone else that lives in another state if you are an unlicensed( meaning no FFL) individual, as long as it is face to face and the individual is not a prohibited person.
    I think you need to verify with the district ATF supervisor because I've gone through this with several agents and been told that residents of two different states can NOT do a private face to face transfer of a firearm without it going through a FFL. If you read the page I linked to you will see that there is no special exceptions for a face to face private transaction except when both reside in the same state. All transfers of firearms between residents of different states must go through a FFL.

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    This very question came up awhile back. While the ATF can and does regulate FFL's, private citizens are not bound by many of the requlations that FFLs are.

    What it amounts to is this...two guys that know each other making a sale...what law has been broken? As long as they are both qualified buyers, dont sell guns for a living and dont do it often, what they are doing is not much different than buying a chair or a chainsaw.

    As it was explained to me, the ATF has neither the time, the manpower or the inclination to regulate sales between private individuals and that is not their intent.

    With that being said, I know that the regulations that govern such things are often cause for much confusion and open to interpretation. What one agent says is absolute in one state is ignored by an agent in another state. Yeah, I know that's not the way it is supposed to be, but you cant imagine the bickering and infighting that goes on between them...it is far from an efficient organization and is no different than any other govenrment agency. Having dealt with and built guns for some of the field agents, its an entirely different world than that of the IOI's and in talking to both and eating with them occasionaly, I find it interesting that they have no use for each other and often conflict in their opinions of things.

    As an 07/02, I can also testify to asking different agents the same question, only to get different answers from each one.

    Even so, the enforcement of regulation is different in each zone. What flys as common in one are, may get one investigated in another.

    So...I guess we'll have to disagree with this one.

    The citizen part of me says that its none of their business what I buy and from who as long as we are both legal.

    The FFL part of me dosent do that, because I am bound by a bunch of silly little laws designed with no real purpose other than to give someone a job.

    Really, I have no dog in this hunt. If somebody feels like they need to get the government involved in a petty little private transaction simply because it involves a gun, then so be it. They can do it their way and feel good about themselves.

    In the mean time, I see more private transactions taking place in the parking lot of various nuclear plants where workers come from all over the country to work than most gun shops see in a long time.

    And in the big scheme of things that really dont matter,the Field Operations Supervisor for the state has my cellnumber on speed dial. He's been know to call me up, drive up from Little Rock and take me out to eat. He works on the same floor that my IOI does. I'll ask them both again, and ask for a clarification on said question...just to verify and double check. One never can be to sure about this stuff.
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    Not disagreeing on the sentiment, I think it's ridiculous too but having to make sure I don't step on any body parts in the day to day with the feds I really try to follow to the letter.

    If you check out 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5) You'll see where this stems from.

    It shall be unlawful—

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed
    importer, licensed manufacturer,
    licensed dealer, or licensed
    8
    collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give,
    transport, or deliver any firearm to any
    person (other than a licensed importer,
    licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer,
    or licensed collector) who the transferor
    knows or has reasonable cause to believe
    does not reside in (or if the person
    is a corporation or other business entity,
    does not maintain a place of business
    in) the State in which the
    transferor resides;
    except that this
    paragraph shall not apply to (A) the
    transfer, transportation, or delivery of a
    firearm made to carry out a bequest of
    a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate
    succession of a firearm by, a person
    who is permitted to acquire or
    possess a firearm under the laws of the
    State of his residence, and (B) the loan
    or rental of a firearm to any person for
    temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
    The bold and underlined is mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Not disagreeing on the sentiment, I think it's ridiculous too but having to make sure I don't step on any body parts in the day to day with the feds I really try to follow to the letter.

    If you check out 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5) You'll see where this stems from.



    The bold and underlined is mine.
    I'm kinda on HotGuns side on this one. I'm not up on all the laws regarding FFL rules, etc... but I've been in law enforcement long enough to know there is never just "ONE"Federal law on any subject... I'm just sayin'...
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    Not disagreeing on the sentiment, I think it's ridiculous too but having to make sure I don't step on any body parts in the day to day with the feds I really try to follow to the letter.
    I'm with ya on that one. My goal in life is to stay out of jail.
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I'm with ya on that one. My goal in life is to stay out of jail.
    If you do get some more info on this that shows different, could I beg a heads up? PM me if you like so we don't muddy this poor thread any more. I'm always open to additional enlightenment. I've had to stick with the line I've posted above but if there's supporting law that trumps that I'd be forever grateful for that info.

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