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Interesting info obtained from three shooting victims

5K views 63 replies 45 participants last post by  CeltKnight 
#1 ·
3 shootings in 2 weeks. I won't go into the specifics of each one, but give some details concerning the physical and ballistic aspects of which I found interesting.

First a guy is standing at the check out counter of a local gas station. He is shot in the back at almost point blank range. The caliber was 32 acp fmj. The round hit him in the spine causing temporary paralysis, but within a few days he is up and walking around with alot of pain. Bullet is still in spine and he is awaiting surgery.

Second guy was accidently shot in the head with a 380, by his partner in crime who was sitting in the front seat of the car. The victim was in the back seat next to the rear left door. The shooter was in the front passenger seat shooting at someone standing outside the left door on the outside of the car.
Victim was hit on the right side of the head above the ear. He was up and talking 2 days after the shooting, and although he can't remember anything, and the full extent of the damage is unknown, he can still talk.

Third victim was a 20 something female who was hit in left side pelvic area with a 45acp. This happened while her drunken boyfriend and his friend were playing with a pistol and it went off as she walked in the room.
The bullet which was an fmj, hit right above the pelvic region, severed the uretha, hit and smashed the pelvic bone, and came to rest in her Right side arse cheek, where it was removed.
They lost her once doing the surgery, and had a very hard time controlling the bleeding. She will need to have some reconstruction work done, but is otherwise going to be ok.

Just a little real life shooting specifics for those that are interested. I personally have taken notes on all of these over the years, and it is a factor in my load selection.
 
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#2 ·
Wow, on all three accounts... I would have thought that each one would have been a kill shot for each of the victims.... Three very lucky individuals IMO.

Thanks for the information.... Food for thought.
 
#4 ·
Shooting #2 sounds like a scene from Pulp Fiction with John Travolta as the shooter!

Gman, with the .45 shot, do you know if it broke the pelvis such that she couldn't stand, or did it drill right through? Much has been written about the advantage of a pelvis shot to get the BG down if he's otherwise soaking up hits, so I'm curious about the outcome of this one.
 
#6 ·
Gasmitty, it drilled right through, and from what I have been told, the fragments are what severed the uretha and put hole in the vaginal wall.
 
#7 ·
True, but I still have my .45 as my "go to" gun. But there are days when my other calibers will have the duty. I haven't (nor do I suspect has anyone else) found the perfect, one-caliber-for-everything round of lore.
 
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#21 ·
Pointless conjecture... :rolleyes:

Is a .357 Magnum, .40 S&W or .357 SIG going to somehow stop the threat more? Do you see how silly that sounds...?

The goal is to STOP the threat, period, and all these shots DID STOP the "threat."
 
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#10 ·
The 380 in the spine at point blank range and the guy is walking around is the one that makes me surprised,I have a spinal cord injury and have chronic pain from it,but I woulda thunk a 380 would have severed the spinal cord,or bone fragments would have caused serious damage,even tho my spinal cord wasn't severed it was damaged to the point that I have permanent disabilities in my lower extremities
 
#12 ·
The spine shot was a .32

Regarding in-between calibers, Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the temple by a 9mm and survived. But I don't think that was 9mm failure, but rather some extraordinary medical work.

Any of these shots would have indeed stopped a fight, I believe.
 
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#11 ·
I'm going to start writing this info down, and post it as I get it. Over the past 17 years I have seen alot, but have not really put any effort into recording it. But from here on out, I will.
On that note, I might just go to speak to the Pathologist tomorrow and see if I can research some of his files from the past 17 years. Now that would be interesting.

I just hate going into that place...
 
#27 ·
Thumbs up. That's a great idea.
 
#14 ·
Many complexities, many variables. The same bullet fired in the same body only fractions apart could result in anything from a quick death to a recoverable injury.

IMO, and simply put, it's much about odds. No doubt that larger/faster cartridges increase odds for quick death.
 
#15 ·
Too may factors with gunshot wounds to say what one's will be fatal and those that will and will not cause serious injury to organs and nerves.

There have been cases were people were shot with very small calibers such as .22 and .25 and died as a result of their wound. Others have been shot in very serious areas of the body with larger caliber and survived. One lady was shot between the eyes by her nut case husband with a .32 acp and then he killed himself with the pistol with a shot to the head. She lived, the bullet went all the way through her brain, exiting the rear of her skull and other than being a bit confused, she survived. She even had made herself a cup of tea after the shooting and the neighbors had alerted police of potential gunshots. That's how the police found her.

A kid in my hometown that used to play some basketball at our local YMCA with us, shot and killed a man he met that day with a .25 acp.

So every gunshot victim or wound to that victim can be vastly different.
 
#16 ·
Gunshots are a crap shoot, an 8 ball, a little science and a lot of luck.

I had a guy one time shot in the side of the upper arm with a .22 LR rifle. It went all the way through the shoulder into the chest cavity and caught an artery in the lung. He sat down on the sofa to wait for EMS. BY the time we got there he had a big pile of frothy red foam coming out of his mouth and collecting in his lap. DRT (Dead Right There).

Another time a lady tried to off herself with a .38. Pointed right at her heart and pulled the trigger. Exit wound corresponding in the back. We all thought she was unresponsive until I yelled in her ear, "What's your name?" She opened her eyes, turned her head and spoke her name, then resumed her previous position. Found out at the hospital that the round struck the rib and tracked around to her back where it popped out without ever entering the chest cavity.

Saw an old timer in the ED one night with a bandaid under his chin, sitting up, in the trauma bay. Found out he shot himself, bullet lodged in the skull after passing through the brain, then drove about 20 miles to the hospital.
 
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#19 ·
Gunshots are a crap shoot, an 8 ball, a little science and a lot of luck.
I was thinking the same thing when I read this thread. There were guys in my dorm that had spinal cord injuries (SCI) and I can tell you from talking to them, every injury is unique. I knew one guy that had ghost pains in his extremities and most guys never feel anything. Some guys have a severed spinal cord and others only have a bruised spinal cord and yet they are both paralyzed with different levels of functionality.

I would also, at the same time however, speculate that no two gun shot wounds are the same. There are so many variables that can take place and yield different outcomes.

The truth is, we're not all created equal. Some of us have more muscle, fat or thicker bones. All of these factors will affect penetration and that's not even to go into the almost un-limited amount of angles that a bullet may enter a body. We've all heard of the guy that fell off of a ladder and broke his neck from a 2-foot fall, resulting in paralysis and we've also heard about the guy that died from a .380 and the one that walked away after being hit with a .45 ACP. Crazy things happen and all we can do is make the most out of every moment. Like the man says, shoot until the threat stops. If you run out of ammo, its improvising time. Man up!
 
#17 ·
Just remember, Shootings are never like the movies or TV. The human body is capable of fending off some pretty terrible stuff. Just because you shoot and hit an aggressor does not mean that they will immediately drop. Having been in several shootings and investigated several more I can relate with a professional degree of certainty that ANY caliber, well placed can inflict serious injury or death. Death is never immediate (unless you swallow a live grenade or do something as horrible), it takes time for the body to bleed out and the systems to shut down. Every shooting needs to be looked at as a learning experience. What to do and what not to do. Severe stress plays the most important role and will revert you back to conditioned responses, unless you are one of the population that reverts back to non-conditioned responses and you freeze. Good info from Glockman 10mm.
 
#20 ·
Without starting a religious war: I believe there is spiritual side to death, or another way to say it is some times it is just not your or their time to die no matter what caliber bullet or even where the wound may be.
 
#22 ·
You all have heard the true story of the woman who had just finished food shopping and had her grocery bags lined up in the back seat of her hot car.

She heard a loud pop behind her that she believed was a gunshot...at that same instant she felt something impact the back of her head.

She put her hand back there and went into a panic as she felt her brains coming out of the back of her skull.

It was a Pillsbury Poppin' Fresh Dough container that had exploded in her hot car and a raw dough biscuit hit and stuck to the back of her head.

She lived.
 
#24 ·
This... And there is always a little "luck" or "providence" somewhere in every shooting. Try to be sure that the "good" is running with you not against you. :)
 
#26 ·
Every gunshot case is different. You can be killed with any caliber. I've seen some gun shot victims come into our ER over the years. We had a guy who shot himself in the head with a .22 pistol, he died; another guy accidentally shot himself in the head with a 9mm, he died; another guy shot himself in the head in our parking lot with a .45 acp, he died.

If a .22 to the head can kill, you bet a .380 would be able to do the same.

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#47 ·
The trouble with comparing calibers in self inflicted head shots are they are normally point blank as in muzzle pressed to the head or a murder with the same.

The hot gases powder and muzzle blast of a 22 lr in a pistol with no place to go but into the head will kill you if there was no bullet involved at all. Much less a 9mm or 45.
 
#29 ·
So...basically, pistol rounds such goat-parts, and we should shoot people multiple times in the brain, heart or spine really really accurately and really, really fast if we want our ineffective, barely qualifying as lethal bullets to have any effect...and to do this we need to train recently, relevantly and realistically under stressful conditions involving time constraints, target constraints, and drills reflective of reality, not our idea of how things will go down?
 
#31 ·
I talked to some guys that was shot and lived.

This guy was shot with a .44 special in the parking lot. He was next to the building. The lead cast round nose bullet hit him in the ribs and deflected through his arm. He said the impact slammed him to the wall and he went down unconscious. He ended up with broken ribs and holes through his arm.

This guy was playing with a .357, twirling it around and it went off. The bullet entered under his chin, knocked out some teeth, his eye and some of his skull. His face has a caved in look and that was awful.

This guy was sleeping in his truck on the parking lot of a bar. Sounds of gunshots woke him up and he got out of his truck and got in a line of fire. He caught a .22 lr in his belly and the bullet went through some organs before exiting out of his shoulder. He was in IC for quite a while. IIRC it went through his liver and lung and something else, a spleen or pancreas.
 
#33 ·
While in Vietnam we were having a real bad day around Hue, a large city in Northern Vietnam during the Tet of 1968. After a long gun battle and running out of ammo I was trying to get a round that did not fire out of my m-16 when 2 Viet Cong regulars came around a large grave site running towards me. Both did not know I was there. When I first saw them I reached for my m-16 but then I new I did not have enough time to retrieve it and it was jammed any way. I was wearing a issue 45 on my hip so I pulled and fired at both of them before they saw me. Both took 2 rounds in the upper body from about 10 to 12 yards. The first man took a round under the left arm pit, second round center chest. Second man took both rounds in upper chest, one just below his chin and the other just below his collar bone. Both fell like a ton of bricks were dropped on them. Of all four bullets, none exited there body's. 230 grain FMJ's. So for me a good day, but one thing I remembered was all four were fmj's, which has always given me the confidence that fmj will do the job.
 
#38 ·
+1
The 1911 with 230 FMJ has been a very effective combo for self defense at close range for the last century.
 
#35 ·
I know this thread is dated, but it's the first time I've seen it and I was curious if you've came across and recorded any other shootings and their results, glockman10mm.
 
#40 ·
My wife was shot in 1997 (before we met), she was 17. Negligent discharge from a young punk who found a handgun in house she was in with her girl friends. 9mm fmj entered her left temple, destroyed her left eye, fragments tore up sinus cavities and saliva glands. Exited from her right cheek. Only a three day hospital stay and she was home. She haa an ocular implant (fake eye) and some minor reconstruction around the socket. Chronic severe migraines about 25 days out of the month. Has to have a water bottle with her at all times due to it being to make enough saliva. This was a headshot for all intensive purposes. Not only has she survived, but she has excelled. And yes, she loves shooting guns and wants a 1911 of her own.

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#42 ·
It is amazing how a GSW can cause chronic pain for many years, if not for a lifetime. I suffered from an AD 10 years ago that put a 230gr ball .45 through my left hand. I have had four surgeries with the most recent being in '12. That damn hand still hurts a lot at times. Thankfully I still have full use of my hand!



Semper Paratus et Armare
 
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