FFL Dealer Sentenced to 121 Months Imprisonment

FFL Dealer Sentenced to 121 Months Imprisonment

This is a discussion on FFL Dealer Sentenced to 121 Months Imprisonment within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Federal Firearms Dealer Sentenced to 121 Months Imprisonment November 4, 2011 RICHARD S. HARTUNIAN, United States Attorney, Northern District of New York, WILBERT L. PLUMMER, ...

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Thread: FFL Dealer Sentenced to 121 Months Imprisonment

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array mrreynolds's Avatar
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    Exclamation FFL Dealer Sentenced to 121 Months Imprisonment

    Federal Firearms Dealer Sentenced to 121 Months Imprisonment
    November 4, 2011

    RICHARD S. HARTUNIAN, United States Attorney, Northern District of New York, WILBERT L. PLUMMER, Acting Special Agent in Charge of the New York Field Division of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), and DELANO A. REID, Acting Special Agent in Charge of the New York Field Division of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), announces that a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) named JOHN RUMBLE (56, of Ogdensburg, New York), was sentenced to 121 months imprisonment by the Honorable David N. Hurd, in Utica, New York, for several federal firearms related offenses.

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  2. #2
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    Without digging into the link, can you summarize whether his offenses were truly criminal, or simply statutory?
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    On June 2, 2011, a U.S. District Court jury in Utica convicted RUMBLE, of the following offenses: one count of conspiracy to make false statements in his FFL records; two counts of sale of a firearm to an illegal drug user; two counts of making false statements in his FFL records; and one count of being an unlawful drug user in possession of 150 firearms that traveled in interstate commerce. The jury also rendered a special verdict wherein they decided that RUMBLE must forfeit his 150 firearms to the federal government for destruction.
    Sounds like he got netted in a drug running ring via being an associate.
    Sticks

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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Without digging into the link, can you summarize whether his offenses were truly criminal, or simply statutory?
    Truly criminal, it appears, including knowingly selling to prohibited persons and then recording false purchaser data in his bound book.
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    Don't get ab FFL license if you use drugs considered Illegal by federal law,It sounds like the 2 guns found at a drug dealers residence were traced back to his shop,and the records showed a straw purchase since I would almost bet the drug dealer told the ATF that he bought the guns from the FFL Dealer
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    I hope he enjoys his stay...
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    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    If he gets 121 years, why don't the justice department and ATF people that were responsible for "Gun Walker" or what ever it was get a bazillion years? Their criminal conduct and enabling of tragedy and murder was so much greater than this guys it defies rational comparison.

    There was plenty of criminal conduct in both Justice and ATF all the way up to Holder to pretty much put them away for a long time if there was any integrity to the system.

    One of my biggest dissapointments in this country I love is the hidious deterioration in the integrity of those in government.

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    Well he's got 10 years to decide what his next stupid move will be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitch View Post
    If he gets 121 years, why don't the justice department and ATF people that were responsible for "Gun Walker" or what ever it was get a bazillion years? Their criminal conduct and enabling of tragedy and murder was so much greater than this guys it defies rational comparison.

    There was plenty of criminal conduct in both Justice and ATF all the way up to Holder to pretty much put them away for a long time if there was any integrity to the system.

    One of my biggest dissapointments in this country I love is the hidious deterioration in the integrity of those in government.

    Fitch
    You are mixing apples and oranges. In the case of the OP he was charged, tried, convicted, sentenced. In the gun running cases there are allegations which are still being investigated, actions which are not necessarily illegal--though stupid-- there have been no indictments, no trials, no convictions, and therefore no sentencing.

    Our law enforcement folks do lots of things many find repugnant; e.g., various stings, but are not illegal. The gun running program might be one of those. It remains to be seen what exactly happened , who authorized it, and on what legal authority. You know, sometimes even the most routine of sting operations go bad and either innocents get harmed or contraband gets into the wrong hands.

    Meanwhile we have one Critter from California who despite his own poor history of being in legal trouble is making a lot of publicity for himself; that's about it.
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    Senior Member Array HK Dan's Avatar
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    Did he do something awful, like sell guns to the Mexican drug cartel? <g>
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    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Selling guns to members of a DTO?

    Enjoy your stay!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard;2069381[B
    Our law enforcement folks do lots of things many find repugnant; e.g., various stings, but are not illegal.[/B] The gun running program might be one of those. It remains to be seen what exactly happened , who authorized it, and on what legal authority. You know, sometimes even the most routine of sting operations go bad and either innocents get harmed or contraband gets into the wrong hands.
    The fact that you (and many others) think it is perfectly fine for LEOs and various other government officials to do things that are clearly illegal is a symptom of what is wrong in our country today. If it is illegal for you and I to do it there is no reason they should be allowed to do it. Buy into that and you have sacrificed much of your freedoms on an intellectual level. This is a sign of the decline of our freedoms that there is so little disgust with this concept.
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  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Our law enforcement folks do lots of things many find repugnant; e.g., various stings, but are not illegal. The gun running program might be one of those. It remains to be seen what exactly happened , who authorized it, and on what legal authority. You know, sometimes even the most routine of sting operations go bad and either innocents get harmed or contraband gets into the wrong hands.
    If letting something like a couple thousand guns illegally cross the border even though ATF agents know it's wrong, and the gun stores have to be told to do it after they try not to, is a routine sting operation, we are in even more trouble than I thought.

    That's just plain wrong.

    Fitch
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    If it wasn't for the fact that the FFL was found positive for marijuana on his hair follicle drug test, I think it is arguable that the Feds could have proven any other illegality on his part in the gun transactions.

    Only 2 of the 72 guns seized were traced back to that particular FFL. Hardly an illegal gun running operation. Who were the FFL's involved in the remaining 70 guns?

    When it comes to straw purchases, how does the FFL know for sure whether or not the purchaser is giving him false information, lying on the yellow sheet? Basically, all the FFL can do is let the purchaser fill out the ATF form and perform the required NICS check. If I were to lie when filling out a yellow sheet and say that I am the sole purchaser of the gun and it is not being purchased for someone else, how in the heck is the FFL selling the gun going to know whether I am being truthful or not?

    So, if I perjured myself in filling out the form, I have created a false document the FFL will have in his possession. How does that come to mean the FFL knowing provided the false information?

    How do they know the marijuana the FFL dealer tested positive for was even part of the 100 pounds of marijuana seized in the sting. The FFL dealer could have purchased his marijuana from a completely different source and had absolutely no involvement with the people busted in the sting.

    Granted, the FFL was righteously gigged for being a user of illegal drugs because of the hair follicle testing... But how do they tie that into everything else?
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    Quote Originally Posted by article;
    This investigation was initiated in the Spring of 2008 when the Saint Lawrence County Drug Task Force initiated a state court authorized wiretap on the telephone of an individual believed to be involved in drug trafficking. The wiretap investigation revealed that this individual and others were involved in the smuggling of high grade marijuana from Canada into the United States.
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