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politics and the second amendment

This is a discussion on politics and the second amendment within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; How is Ron Paul a liar? Ron Paul lost all credibility with me, when he stated he would be willing to appoint congressman Dennis J. ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array bolocanolo's Avatar
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    How is Ron Paul a liar? Ron Paul lost all credibility with me, when he stated he would be willing to appoint congressman Dennis J. Kucinich Ohio 10th district, to a cabinet level position in a Ron Paul administration. Can someone show me how Dennis J. Kucinich is a defender of the second amendment? Can you find evidence in the congressional voting record, showing were Kusinich has voted for gun rights? You may think Ron Paul is not a liar, but is he credible? More important is he quilified for the office of the President? Ron Paul and Dennis Kusinich where among only 6 congressman who voted against H.R. 5552 later becoming H.R. 510 signed into law of all people President Obama, which allowed manufactorers of ammunition to pay the sales taxes on their sales, every three months (like every other business) as opposed to every 15 days. The NRA-IL lobbied for this law. Amoung others opposing this measure were Maxine Waters, D-CA John Conyers,D-MI. Can you get any further left than these folks?
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  2. #17
    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolocanolo View Post
    How is Ron Paul a liar? Ron Paul lost all credibility with me, when he stated he would be willing to appoint congressman Dennis J. Kucinich Ohio 10th district, to a cabinet level position in a Ron Paul administration. Can someone show me how Dennis J. Kucinich is a defender of the second amendment? Can you find evidence in the congressional voting record, showing were Kusinich has voted for gun rights? You may think Ron Paul is not a liar, but is he credible? More important is he quilified for the office of the President? Ron Paul and Dennis Kusinich where among only 6 congressman who voted against H.R. 5552 later becoming H.R. 510 signed into law of all people President Obama, which allowed manufactorers of ammunition to pay the sales taxes on their sales, every three months (like every other business) as opposed to every 15 days. The NRA-IL lobbied for this law. Amoung others opposing this measure were Maxine Waters, D-CA John Conyers,D-MI. Can you get any further left than these folks?
    I am not familiar with the law mentioned but is this the only thing that it deals with? Most legislation has added on crap that has nothing to do with the original purpose. Sometimes a person will disagree with that small part and so must vote against the whole thing. I am not a Ron Paul supporter as I think his foreign policy ideas go too far towards protectionism. We are involved around the world as the only military superpower and the rest of the world needs our economy, even if it is not currently performing. You cannot un-ring those bells by pulling out of everywhere and closing off trade with people you don't like. If your only criteria is that he is willing to appoint people to cabinet positions that don't have your view of the 2A you will not be able to vote for anyone ever again. Ron Paul is planning to close many Govt agencies but maybe he thinks Kucinich would be a good person to run Health and Human Services, Transportation, or some other similar department. How does his opinion on 2A matter in HHS or DOE. As far as I am concerned moving him out of congress takes away his vote and may help us in our cause.

  3. #18
    Member Array bolocanolo's Avatar
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    The law passed on a vote of 412-6 and the law only dealt with that item, Nothing else. In addition Congressman Paul also voted against the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act that shields firearms manufacturers and firearms dealers from frivolous, politically-motivated lawsuits. So the only two recent bills aiding the firearms industry were opposed by Congressman Paul; a man hailed by many as a “true pro-gun Congressman.”
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  4. #19
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    His mouths moving!
    Quote Originally Posted by ak74 View Post
    How is Ron Paul a liar? Screw the rest.
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  5. #20
    Member Array Roon's Avatar
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    The law did not deal specifically with ammunition for starters. Here is the bill text - "H.R.510 - To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to require that the payment of the manufacturers' excise tax on recreational equipment be paid quarterly.". Ron Paul probably also opposed the original tax code requiring those businesses to pay every 15 days. The man hates taxes. This bill was also not aimed at helping the firearms industry....it was aimed at manufacturers of recreational equipment.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    They take something that is perfectly clear to most people and they chop/cut/misunderstand/misinterpret/distort/lie/embellish/leave out/twist/ and rape the English language into something that no one can recognize as to what the original intent was.

    Out of confusion, there is money to be made.
    I believe you left out obfuscate, manufacture, misinform and eschew the truth.
    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Ben Franklin

    NRA Life

  7. #22
    Member Array Jpeetz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolocanolo View Post
    The law passed on a vote of 412-6 and the law only dealt with that item, Nothing else. In addition Congressman Paul also voted against the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act that shields firearms manufacturers and firearms dealers from frivolous, politically-motivated lawsuits. So the only two recent bills aiding the firearms industry were opposed by Congressman Paul; a man hailed by many as a “true pro-gun Congressman.”
    These laws protected, in your own words "The firearms dealers", "firearms manufacturers" The owners of these buisness and corporations should not be granted any special privilages not allowed to you or I, should they? Are you suggesting for some reason that any manufacturer or buisness even outside the firearm industry should have more personal freedoms than me? Congressman Paul is a libertarian with verry conservitive views, He fights for YOUR freedoms, not the lobyists, buisness, corporations, ect.. Why would Paul vote for the lawful commerce in arms act? He is a libertarian fighting for YOUR constitutional rites. He is not into protecting the relationships between Govt. and corporations (Firearm manufacturers and firearm dealers are buisness and corporations and should not get any special umbrella coverage that is not afforded to any private citizen). Its nothing personal, he wouldnt limit our rites to support any buisness or corporation outside of the firearm industry either. He dosnt like kickback, lobyist driven, corrupt laws that limit our personal freedom, or allow special interests to get there foot in the door. Believe it or not some laws that contain the word "firearm" are bad laws. Ron Paul voted no because it limited YOUR personal freedom and the law was unconstitutional. Ron Paul is for constitutional carry.... Any questions??? You can go after Ron Paul on a lot of things, but not on gun rites, or the constitution for that matter, Ron Paul strictly interprets the constitution and makes his decisions acordingly to protect and regain our personal freedoms the best one man can. Feel free to atack the guy on some of his loopty-loop, alice in wonderland ideas, or possibly on forigne policy, but when it comes to his voting record in acordance with the constitution and protecting your freedom, sorry, you are going to get owned.
    Miracles happen, not in opposition to Nature,
    but in opposition to what we know of Nature.

    St. Augustine

  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array Black Knight's Avatar
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    You say the 2nd Ammendment isn't about hunting, home defense, or target shooting. I would like to politely disagree, to me it is about that and great deal more. It is just perspective. To me it is about freedom from fear of violent crimes in the home and on the street. It is about putting meat on the table (for those super educated hambuger does not come from the supemarket it comes from a cow and is sold in the supermarket). It is about having fun putting holes in a piece of paper, popping ballons, bouncing tin cans, busting clay pegions. It is about all this and more. It is about tradition, freedom, safety, fun and appreciation of sometimes beautiful pieces of art made from steel, wood, ivory, and other materials just to name a few. Stay safe.

  9. #24
    Member Array gunsnroses's Avatar
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    To me its not just about the second amendment, but it is all the amendments and freedoms we are afforded in the constitution.

    Government is suppose to fear the people, but I am seeing that being turned the other way around. The people are now fearing our government with all the powers they are affording themselves. I talk about the patriot act, illegal wire tapping, water boarding, indefinite detentions (now for American citizens too), etc etc etc. Now just recently, most Americans have lost all of our financial power. Our homes are being foreclosed on because of predatory lending, all of our jobs are being shipped abroad for mere corporate profit, and this country's major export is refined fuel.

    Now to add insult to injury, corporations are now people and money is speech?

    But what really gets my hide is the "sheep" that follow in lock step with this stupid ideology that somehow if we keep feeding the greedy and destroying our environment where our own children are getting sick, homeless, and starving....that somehow it will "trickle down" (like crumbs from the dinner table) for all the rest of us!!!

    When you feed a plant, you don't just sprinkle water on the leaves. You water the ROOTS!!!!
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cthruit View Post
    Ron Paul is as close to legitimate as there is in the field. I truly believe his libertarian views are genuine...just wish the "machine" would allow him to be the contender he actually is.

    Genuine Libertarian view huh?

    "Boy, it sure burns me to have a national holiday for that pro-communist philanderer, Martin Luther King. I voted against this outrage time and time again as a Congressman. What an infamy that Ronald Reagan approved it! We can thank him for our annual Hate Whitey Day." - The Ron Paul Survival Report
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    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    To say that I don't like Ron Paul and believe he is neither qualified not intelligent enough to be President of the USA is a monumental understatement. Are you upset that Obama wants to cut the military as drastically as is currently being reported? That is nothing compared to what Ron Paul has said he wants to do to it.

    Ron Paul also doesn't agree that Israel should exist. Our best ally and the bastion of real democracy in the Middle East and he doesn't think it is anything we need to show support for.

    I'm not a big fan of any of the current GOP candidates but Ron Paul is way down on the list of those running.
    ,=====o00o _
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  12. #27
    Member Array gunsnroses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    To say that I don't like Ron Paul and believe he is neither qualified not intelligent enough to be President of the USA is a monumental understatement. Are you upset that Obama wants to cut the military as drastically as is currently being reported? That is nothing compared to what Ron Paul has said he wants to do to it.

    Ron Paul also doesn't agree that Israel should exist. Our best ally and the bastion of real democracy in the Middle East and he doesn't think it is anything we need to show support for.

    I'm not a big fan of any of the current GOP candidates but Ron Paul is way down on the list of those running.
    All I keep hearing is "anyone is better than Obama" and then I look at the republican field and say "really?"

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