politics and the second amendment

politics and the second amendment

This is a discussion on politics and the second amendment within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I spent a little bit of time reviewing the official platforms of the GOP candidates today. Not too thrilled with what I found, being that ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array cthruit's Avatar
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    politics and the second amendment

    I spent a little bit of time reviewing the official platforms of the GOP candidates today. Not too thrilled with what I found, being that they're mostly all liars. As you choose whatever it is you'll be voting for, please help me to educate America, one citizen at a time that



    THE SECOND AMENDMENT ISN'T ABOUT HUNTING OR HOME DEFENSE OR TARGET SHOOTING.

    Thanks you.
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    Member Array Varmiter's Avatar
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    I’ve been doing just that for years. But I’m curious.

    What does the 2nd Amendment mean to you??

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    Politicians only have one purpose in life.

    They take something that is perfectly clear to most people and they chop/cut/misunderstand/misinterpret/distort/lie/embellish/leave out/twist/ and rape the English language into something that no one can recognize as to what the original intent was.

    Out of confusion, there is money to be made.
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    How is Ron Paul a liar? Screw the rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Politicians only have one purpose in life.

    They take something that is perfectly clear to most people and they chop/cut/misunderstand/misinterpret/distort/lie/embellish/leave out/twist/ and rape the English language into something that no one can recognize as to what the original intent was.

    Out of confusion, there is money to be made.
    I recently found a very good definition of HotGun's thoughts on politic-speak and politicital-correctness.........

    POLITICALLY CORRECT (adjective or verb) – The skillful art of substituting words of a factual statement with other words similar in general meaning, but different enough in specific meaning, to produce a creative new word combination which is designed to completely warp the factual concept of the original statement to the point that many of lesser intelligence will not only be convinced that it is possible to pick up a turd by the clean end, but to also purvey the turd itself as being a valuable asset.

    About the only way anyone can figure a politician's position on anything is to look at their past track record (if one can be found) on any subject because they are all going to dance around any hot topic during election periods to keep from turning away potential suckers...... errr, voters.
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    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    I would argue that the 2A is about all of the above, and a couple more. The best way to become familiar with arms is to target shoot or hunt with them. And the main point of the 2A is to have a public that is versed in the use of firearms. And the founders, and several state constitutions, specifically mention self or home defense. The protection from tyranny part generally gets some folks worked up though, even though it's arguably the main reason for the 2A.

    So here is a question for you. Why would you want to alienate folks that are only interested in hunting, target shooting, or self defense? And before you get too worked up, telling someone they are wrong is a good way to alienate them. In my world, I want those folks on my side too.
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    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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    Member Array cthruit's Avatar
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    The second amendment for at least the last generation or so has continually been presented as the backdrop for hunters rights and keeping a gun to defend your castle. I believe in all shooting sports, hunting and personal defense. But along with these endeavors, we shouldn't lose sight of the reset mechanism the second amendment was intended to be. Tyrannical government and all that.

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    Member Array cthruit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak74 View Post
    How is Ron Paul a liar? Screw the rest.
    Ron Paul is as close to legitimate as there is in the field. I truly believe his libertarian views are genuine...just wish the "machine" would allow him to be the contender he actually is.

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    Member Array cthruit's Avatar
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    So here is a question for you. Why would you want to alienate folks that are only interested in hunting, target shooting, or self defense? And before you get too worked up, telling someone they are wrong is a good way to alienate them. In my world, I want those folks on my side too.[/QUOTE]

    I'm nor alienating anyone. I hunt, target shoot and have friends active in sporting clays, practical shooting, etc... I only meant that these are not the preeminent reasons the founders stated our right to keep and bear arms. When elections come around, the "conservative" candidates used to don their new duck hunting bibs and blaze caps for the pictures about how they support the "sportsmen" they wanted to court. The second amendment doesn't mention duck hunting and the right to keep guns for sporting purposes. That's all I was trying to convey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varmiter View Post
    I’ve been doing just that for years. But I’m curious.

    What does the 2nd Amendment mean to you??
    To me the 2nd Amendment is proof that the right to bear arms pre-dates the Constitution. Does not the fact that it says the government cannot infringe on the right imply that it already existed?

    The Bill of rights does not give us anything. It only reminds the Government that they cannot take away the rights we have not given up voluntarily to them in the Constitution.
    This view conflicts with what is thought now days.

    Michael
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    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cthruit View Post
    I'm nor alienating anyone. I hunt, target shoot and have friends active in sporting clays, practical shooting, etc... I only meant that these are not the preeminent reasons the founders stated our right to keep and bear arms. When elections come around, the "conservative" candidates used to don their new duck hunting bibs and blaze caps for the pictures about how they support the "sportsmen" they wanted to court. The second amendment doesn't mention duck hunting and the right to keep guns for sporting purposes. That's all I was trying to convey.
    While I'm not a big fan of the politicos that pander to a crowd and act like they are part of it; we, as gun owners, still need the duck hunters. Maybe saying the 2A is about MORE than hunting, target shooting, and self defense is the better way to go. Telling folks that it's not about their favorite pastime might not fire them up for helping support the 2A cause. Kind of like the "hunters" mouthing off about the "black rifle" crowd. We do a disservice to the cause if we divide it up so precisely that we leave out large groups of gun owners.


    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

    -- Thomas Jefferson


    “The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world. The first step – in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come – is to teach men to shoot!” Theodore Roosevelt

    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -- Alexander Hamilton

    A pretty open ended statement.


    While we can't afford to fall for the "2A is about hunting", we can neither afford to strictly reduce it to only opposing a tyrannical government. It's gonna take all of us.
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    VIP Member Array shooterX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    While I'm not a big fan of the politicos that pander to a crowd and act like they are part of it; we, as gun owners, still need the duck hunters. Maybe saying the 2A is about MORE than hunting, target shooting, and self defense is the better way to go. Telling folks that it's not about their favorite pastime might not fire them up for helping support the 2A cause. Kind of like the "hunters" mouthing off about the "black rifle" crowd. We do a disservice to the cause if we divide it up so precisely that we leave out large groups of gun owners.


    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

    -- Thomas Jefferson


    “The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world. The first step – in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come – is to teach men to shoot!” Theodore Roosevelt

    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -- Alexander Hamilton

    A pretty open ended statement.


    While we can't afford to fall for the "2A is about hunting", we can neither afford to strictly reduce it to only opposing a tyrannical government. It's gonna take all of us.
    Allow me to add to your quotes...another from Jefferson, which I believe alludes to a more encompassing view of firearms in daily life as seen by many of our founders.

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion of your walks."

    --Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785

    The Roosevelt quote you posted is one of my favorites of his regarding firearms.
    "Don't start none, won't be none!"

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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cthruit View Post
    The second amendment for at least the last generation or so has continually been presented as the backdrop for hunters rights and keeping a gun to defend your castle. I believe in all shooting sports, hunting and personal defense. But along with these endeavors, we shouldn't lose sight of the reset mechanism the second amendment was intended to be. Tyrannical government and all that.
    I too believe that the 2nd-A was intended to ensure that a reset switch to the system be in the hands of the people. Given the context of what the document authors had lived through, I believe this to be intuitive. Until roughly, post WW2 and the cultural + societal changes, guns were a common tool and way of life. This has been largely lost in current urban society with the result being what we see today.

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    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cthruit View Post
    So here is a question for you. Why would you want to alienate folks that are only interested in hunting, target shooting, or self defense? And before you get too worked up, telling someone they are wrong is a good way to alienate them. In my world, I want those folks on my side too.
    I'm nor alienating anyone. I hunt, target shoot and have friends active in sporting clays, practical shooting, etc... I only meant that these are not the preeminent reasons the founders stated our right to keep and bear arms. When elections come around, the "conservative" candidates used to don their new duck hunting bibs and blaze caps for the pictures about how they support the "sportsmen" they wanted to court. The second amendment doesn't mention duck hunting and the right to keep guns for sporting purposes. That's all I was trying to convey.[/QUOTE]

    And conveyed well. Thanks!
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    Member Array Roon's Avatar
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    When discussing the original intent of the 2A, I dont think we can bring hunter rights or target shooting or any of that into the mix as those were not issues at the time of the founding fathers. It had to do with 1 thing and 1 thing only...allowing people the means to protect themselves from tyranny. Today there are other fringe benefits such as hunting rights and things of that nature...but at its core the 2A is the recognition of the right to self defense from everything....including government.
    cthruit and TN_Mike like this.

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