Gsg 1911 22 slide cracked - Page 2

Gsg 1911 22 slide cracked

This is a discussion on Gsg 1911 22 slide cracked within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Well, so far, so good. I had an email response from ATI's Terry Guite, then spoke with him on the phone. He is emailing me ...

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Thread: Gsg 1911 22 slide cracked

  1. #16
    Member Array OldCorps's Avatar
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    Well, so far, so good. I had an email response from ATI's Terry Guite, then spoke with him on the phone. He is emailing me a shipping lable, and I am to send the entire pistol and all my mags, so they can make sure that the frame is okay, and that the mags are still working fine. He said that it may be two-weeks to a month till I get it back.
    "Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves." D.H. Lawrence


  2. #17
    Member Array vanagonnuts's Avatar
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    Yikes, I have been eyeing these...they have them for 299 locally, 1800 rounds isn't much but 20k is.

    don't want something blowing up on the wife as a training gun.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCorps View Post
    Hello folks. This is my first post, so hope I don't tangle it up.

    Last evening I took my GSG 1911/22 to the range for the third time, and right around the 500-round mark, my son-in-law threw his hand up to his face and shouted an expletive. Laying the pistol on the bench, and turning around, he said: "Your pistol just blew up." A trickle of blood was running down his cheek, and we picked out a small frag of aluminum which had just penetrated the surface. If I don't screw-up attaching the photo, you'll see that my slide looks similar, but not quite as bad as the OP's. But with only 500 rounds through it. This is right scary, and not quite acceptable. I emailed some photos to ATI last night, and will be phoning them shortly.
    I sent mine in a few weeks ago finally,something tells me it may take awhile to get it back,with that many slide failures,they need to change the material or something,otherwise people won't be buying them
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Looks like my GSG 1911 will be back on friday,got the UPS notification,hopefully they have adressed the slide issues,or else I got a feeling this one will end up cracking too.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array sonnycrocket's Avatar
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    mine cracked right out of the box,maybe 150 rounds ,,jammed every mag,stove piped,FTFs.....what a mess.....
    GSGs suck,and ATI does a pretty shabby job of handing warrenty issues......mines has been to ATI twice already and soon as it comes back
    again its going to be traded out for a gun not made from POTMETAL - its literally exploded in my face



  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Dang. I was talking about buying one of these yesterday. Not looking good.
    There's nothing like a funeral to make you feel alive

  7. #22
    Member Array OldCorps's Avatar
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    Since my previous post concerning the split slide of my GSG 1911-22, I've done done a great deal of research, have communicated, both by phone and email with an ATI representative, and have discovered photo-documentation of four other incidents of the same, and worse, catastrophic failure in the GSG pistols in the exact same area of the slide.

    I was informed by the ATI rep. that the slide material is "Zamak 5", and that "the material has been tested and was approved for use with the high velocity rounds." I was also told that "The manufacturer recommends Federal American Eagle but as you also stated CCI [I had indicated that some magazine reviewers had recommended CCI Stingers as being 'loved' by the GSG they had tested'] as also works very well. Now the weapon will work with Remington however it is not the recommended ammunition to use with the weapon." Remington Thunderbolts were the ammo in use when the slide split. Nowhere in the manual, or in any of the company literature I have read, has there been any mention of recommended or forbidden ammo, the only reference, in the GSG Manual, to ammo being: “...we decided to adjust the GSG-1911 to the high quality standard-ammunition as well as the HV ammunition.

    I did a bit of research on the metal "Zamak 5", and found that it is a zinc alloy (commonly referred to as pot-metal) with a fatigue value roughly half that of 7075-T6 Aluminum. I'm not a metallurgical engineer, and I'm not doubting that the material was "approved for use...", however, I do have some serious doubts regarding the machined thickness of the material in the high-stress areas of the receiver where the failure is occurring.

    After studying the split slide quite closely, and formulating some opinions, I took a few measurements. Some were difficult to reach with mics and calipers without dismantling the receiver—which I did not do, in order not to hinder the ATI armorer's inspection—but, as near as I could come without doing so: The rear sight dovetail groove is so deep that only .021" of material remains between the bottom of the cut and the interior broach-bottom. That is an area .450" wide, and .760" long, extending the entire length of the interior cavity. The thickness of the material along the tear—as near as I could get without springing the detached side of the slide—is about .050", with just a sliver of material .550" by the same thickness (.050") which extends all the way to the rear of the slide side where it meets the rear, top of the slide. For these extremely thin pieces of a cast metal with a fatigue rating of 85 MPa (7075-T6 Aluminum is: 159 MPa, and 4140 steel is 417 MPa, approx.) to hold up to the hammering of 50,000 rnds. of HV ammo—as has been reported by some, is absolutely miraculous. Mine failed at 500 rounds, others (those I could find online) at somewhat more, and my slide-stop has been peened completely round in those 500 rounds. This stuff is SOFT!

    ATI has proven quite willing to replace the slide, and examine the frame so as to assure that it was not also damaged, and I am quite disappointed, because the GSG is otherwise a beautiful pistol, but, after reviewing all the data I could find, I have concluded that I could never again feel secure in firing this pistol, and will be purchasing either a another brand pistol—or a conversion kit for my RIA 1911/45 Match, whose slide is made of, at the very least, 7075-T6 Aluminum.

    I am not bad-mouthing GSG, nor ATI, for, judging by all accounts, I believe them both to be excellent and conscientious companies. I merely feel that the characteristics that I have mentioned concerning the choice of material, and the machining of the slide in critical areas are such that make this gun potentially dangerous to the shooter. That is the only reason I have written such a lengthy post, and I would caution owners to be vigilant in inspecting for any hairline cracks forming anywhere between the top-left corner of the ejection port and the rear of the slide at the left, upper corner of the hammer opening.
    __________________
    "Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves." D.H. Lawrence
    OD* likes this.
    "Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves." D.H. Lawrence

  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    OC thank you for that information. Very helpful. I think I may be leaning towards the Colt offering which is in fact made of aluminum.
    There's nothing like a funeral to make you feel alive

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array sonnycrocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCorps View Post
    Since my previous post concerning the split slide of my GSG 1911-22, I've done done a great deal of research, have communicated, both by phone and email with an ATI representative, and have discovered photo-documentation of four other incidents of the same, and worse, catastrophic failure in the GSG pistols in the exact same area of the slide.

    I was informed by the ATI rep. that the slide material is "Zamak 5", and that "the material has been tested and was approved for use with the high velocity rounds." I was also told that "The manufacturer recommends Federal American Eagle but as you also stated CCI [I had indicated that some magazine reviewers had recommended CCI Stingers as being 'loved' by the GSG they had tested'] as also works very well. Now the weapon will work with Remington however it is not the recommended ammunition to use with the weapon." Remington Thunderbolts were the ammo in use when the slide split. Nowhere in the manual, or in any of the company literature I have read, has there been any mention of recommended or forbidden ammo, the only reference, in the GSG Manual, to ammo being: “...we decided to adjust the GSG-1911 to the high quality standard-ammunition as well as the HV ammunition.

    I did a bit of research on the metal "Zamak 5", and found that it is a zinc alloy (commonly referred to as pot-metal) with a fatigue value roughly half that of 7075-T6 Aluminum. I'm not a metallurgical engineer, and I'm not doubting that the material was "approved for use...", however, I do have some serious doubts regarding the machined thickness of the material in the high-stress areas of the receiver where the failure is occurring.

    After studying the split slide quite closely, and formulating some opinions, I took a few measurements. Some were difficult to reach with mics and calipers without dismantling the receiver—which I did not do, in order not to hinder the ATI armorer's inspection—but, as near as I could come without doing so: The rear sight dovetail groove is so deep that only .021" of material remains between the bottom of the cut and the interior broach-bottom. That is an area .450" wide, and .760" long, extending the entire length of the interior cavity. The thickness of the material along the tear—as near as I could get without springing the detached side of the slide—is about .050", with just a sliver of material .550" by the same thickness (.050") which extends all the way to the rear of the slide side where it meets the rear, top of the slide. For these extremely thin pieces of a cast metal with a fatigue rating of 85 MPa (7075-T6 Aluminum is: 159 MPa, and 4140 steel is 417 MPa, approx.) to hold up to the hammering of 50,000 rnds. of HV ammo—as has been reported by some, is absolutely miraculous. Mine failed at 500 rounds, others (those I could find online) at somewhat more, and my slide-stop has been peened completely round in those 500 rounds. This stuff is SOFT!

    ATI has proven quite willing to replace the slide, and examine the frame so as to assure that it was not also damaged, and I am quite disappointed, because the GSG is otherwise a beautiful pistol, but, after reviewing all the data I could find, I have concluded that I could never again feel secure in firing this pistol, and will be purchasing either a another brand pistol—or a conversion kit for my RIA 1911/45 Match, whose slide is made of, at the very least, 7075-T6 Aluminum.

    I am not bad-mouthing GSG, nor ATI, for, judging by all accounts, I believe them both to be excellent and conscientious companies. I merely feel that the characteristics that I have mentioned concerning the choice of material, and the machining of the slide in critical areas are such that make this gun potentially dangerous to the shooter. That is the only reason I have written such a lengthy post, and I would caution owners to be vigilant in inspecting for any hairline cracks forming anywhere between the top-left corner of the ejection port and the rear of the slide at the left, upper corner of the hammer opening.
    __________________
    "Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves." D.H. Lawrence
    your measurements prove it......the slide is too thin,the material is too weak
    I am waiting on mine so I can trade it in..my local dealer will no longer even carry them after I educated him on
    whats been going on...ATI has been most disappointing through the entire process and in all my years of shooting
    and swapping through warranty process they seemingly have the most immature attitude "get in line"

    Shipping me another slide that will likely fail is a no go in my book ---ATI/GSG=fail

  10. #25
    Member Array OldCorps's Avatar
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    I'm trying to nail down the possibility that this problem might be cropping up in an isolated serial-number batch. My S/N is A404034. Would those of you who have experienced the splitting slide, mind posting the S/Ns of your guns?

    I took mine back to the dealer, and he is going to talk to the importer/manufacturer to see if he can get more information out of them than I seem to be able to. I've decided to allow them the chance to make it right, but if I get back another pewter-soft slide, back it goes.
    "Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves." D.H. Lawrence

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array sonnycrocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCorps View Post
    I'm trying to nail down the possibility that this problem might be cropping up in an isolated serial-number batch. My S/N is A404034. Would those of you who have experienced the splitting slide, mind posting the S/Ns of your guns?

    I took mine back to the dealer, and he is going to talk to the importer/manufacturer to see if he can get more information out of them than I seem to be able to. I've decided to allow them the chance to make it right, but if I get back another pewter-soft slide, back it goes.
    your a nicer guy than me.......mines going up for sale soon as it comes back

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    My gun is supposed to be here today,there is a gun show this weekend and I may be selling the GSG ,I have a S&W 22a that has never had a major part failed in over 30,000+ rounds
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array sonnycrocket's Avatar
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    MY GSG finnally came home,they added a new slide and claim it was test fired...Thats a lie,it was never fired .....

    Its going up for sale .......all these new wave of German .22s from S&W,GSG,ATI,SIG,COLT etc can kiss my arce......every one of them have pot metal slides
    and are identical to each other....Even the S&W M&P 22 is a pot metal GSG slide made to look like a M&P - Too light duty for my tastes
    Im buying an old school Ruger all steel heavy ugly 22 that will last me decades

  14. #29
    Member Array OldCorps's Avatar
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    "...your a nicer guy than me.......mines going up for sale soon as it comes back."

    Well, actually, not really. The more I thought about it, the angrier I got, so late yesterday afternoon I emailed the customer "service" guy at ATI:

    "Unless your armorer can convince me that the problem has been investigated, identified, and that steps have been taken to assure me—in writing—that a replacement is 100% safe, then I AM NOT WILLING TO ACCEPT A REPLACEMENT SLIDE. If you have no desire to honor this request, then I want my money—every cent of it, back. Thus far, from what contact we've had, and from the comments of others suffering issues with this pistol, regarding "poor" customer support from ATI, it appears to me that you are perfectly willing to put customers at risk, by ignoring that there is problem, and expecting us to accept replacements which may or may not be faulty and dangerous. You appear to be either unwilling, or unable to give assurance otherwise. I have given my dealer instructions to the effect that, should he not receive such assurances, he should refuse a replacement, and demand repayment in full, in a timely fashion. If you are not in a position to fulfill this request, then please put me in touch with someone who can." Can't wait to hear the reply.

    Earlier today I ordered a Precision 2 Conversion Kit from Marvel. I figured that if I wanted to get training that will carry over to my CCW, then why not have the same trigger, grip, overall feel...
    "Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves." D.H. Lawrence

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array sonnycrocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCorps View Post
    "...your a nicer guy than me.......mines going up for sale soon as it comes back."

    Well, actually, not really. The more I thought about it, the angrier I got, so late yesterday afternoon I emailed the customer "service" guy at ATI:

    "Unless your armorer can convince me that the problem has been investigated, identified, and that steps have been taken to assure me—in writing—that a replacement is 100% safe, then I AM NOT WILLING TO ACCEPT A REPLACEMENT SLIDE. If you have no desire to honor this request, then I want my money—every cent of it, back. Thus far, from what contact we've had, and from the comments of others suffering issues with this pistol, regarding "poor" customer support from ATI, it appears to me that you are perfectly willing to put customers at risk, by ignoring that there is problem, and expecting us to accept replacements which may or may not be faulty and dangerous. You appear to be either unwilling, or unable to give assurance otherwise. I have given my dealer instructions to the effect that, should he not receive such assurances, he should refuse a replacement, and demand repayment in full, in a timely fashion. If you are not in a position to fulfill this request, then please put me in touch with someone who can." Can't wait to hear the reply.

    Earlier today I ordered a Precision 2 Conversion Kit from Marvel. I figured that if I wanted to get training that will carry over to my CCW, then why not have the same trigger, grip, overall feel...
    ATI does a pretty shoddy job of it........I was told.......I would get an explanation on why my gun kaboomed on me,never got that
    I was told Id get some SWAGGER his words not mine......like a free mag or Tshirt,big deal but OK that never happend and my gun was
    test fired listed on the paperwork........That was also a lie.......here nor there,I sold it 3 hours ago and ordered a Ruger Mark3 for its replacement

    Its not the Kaboom that has me pissed its ATI,they are a bunch of clowns ,liars and waste of airspace - Stuff happens all the time,its how its rectified that
    is the key............good luck OldCorps

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