January 3rd, 2012 07:15 AM
357 magnum vs 44 special round?
Never owned either of these so im wondering what bullet would be better for self defence and woods carry protection in the east? My first opinion would be to go with the 357 mag cause of more ammo available and in most revolvers have 7 or even 8 round wheels. Oh and i dont reload as of yet so it would be store ammo. Any advantages of the 44 speical that im missing before i jump on the 357 mag?
January 3rd, 2012 08:40 AM
After reading your response from my prior answer to your question concerning this, I would say go with the 357 magnum.
The 44 spl offers big bore performance without the flash and concussion of the 357 mag.
It is not as handicapped by velocity loss in the snub barrel as the 357 magnum.
The 357 magnum, depends on high velocity to to do it's work. It uses slow burning powder to do this which is dependent on barrel length for a complete burn. The short snub tube negates this, so in reality, it defeats the purpose of the 357 magnums attributes to a hot 38 +p+.
The strength of the 44 spl is it's weight and size, which does the work, and not as dependent on velocity to give a good account of it's attributes.
I'll say this one more time. I have seen and handled the 38 spl M10's at Buds Gun shop. They are well worth the 269.00 asking price. You would be much better off with one of these loaded with hardcast 158 grn bullets than a short barreled 357 mag Tarus, even with the 50.00 charge of your FFL holder.
Do what you want. This is the best advice I know to give.
Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.
January 3rd, 2012 09:42 AM
I appreciate the advise greatly... This post wasnt aimed toward my last post about buying the Taurus revolver tho but the last post has got me thinking about these 2 calibers. This post is aimed at wondering about the two calibers 357 mag and the 44 special performance wise. No matter what brand of revolver i go with.. 357 Being more of a hot speedy high velocity round with a smaller diamiter VS 44 special a slower bigger round. Just curious about what would actually perform better out of a snuby. Not really interested in a 38 special revolver cause if i go with a 357 i could shoot the 38 s anyway.
Originally Posted by glockman10mm
January 3rd, 2012 09:51 AM
Oh ya i looked on buds site last night saw a 38 looked really rough and used big time wouldnt be interested in something like that would rather spend the money on new. Also you say to go with the 357 but then it sounds like you prefer a 44 special out of a snuby cause its not velocity dependent and the weight and size is its strenght. So being that im not interested in a 38 special would you go with the 357 out of a snuby or the 44 special? I do see what you saying about the 38 special +p I just would rather have a gun that capable for shooting both 357 and 38 and 38+p..
January 3rd, 2012 10:15 AM
If you get a 357 magnum with a snub barrel, you don't really have the 357 mag potential, so you might as well have a 38 spl with a 4 inch tube.
If you insist on a snub nose, the 44 spl is the way to go.
Fwiw, those old M10's are like a fine wine compared to the Taurus, which is like a cheap beer in comparison. They can be refinished like new and would be something to own and be proud of, also will go up in value. The Taurus on the other hand will never gain value or status.
But perhaps that is not important to you, so get the 44 spl, although I can never recommend a Taurus.
Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.
January 3rd, 2012 10:39 AM
Thanks that does help me alot in caliber choice. I will look into other guns more before i make up my mind on what brand revolver i want to go with. But i will say that i own both smith and wesson and taurus revolvers and never had a problem with either. As far as the taurus holding value it think they hold value pretty well considering their made in brazil. I have a taurus ragingbull 44 mag that i bought used 7 years ago for 450 bucks in mint condition shop said the guy bought it 3 months ealier and returned it because of getting a divorce. Took it to the local shop to maybe see what i can get on a trade and they said theyd give me 390 for it! Im guessing theyll sell it then for about 450 to 475. So i think they hold value. Obviously they wont as much as the smith and wesson tho but they still do.
Originally Posted by glockman10mm
January 3rd, 2012 11:18 AM
I would not want a 44 special if I didn't reload.
May I suggest a 3" barrel gun like the sp101 or the sw mod 60? I have the sp101 in 2" barrel and I'm pretty sure I could carry the 3" just as easily. The extra inch makes a big difference in 357 performance too.
I wouldn't want to carry any of the large L frames with 7-8 round cylinders. That would be just too much for me.
January 3rd, 2012 11:26 AM
I origianly was going to go with the Ruger sp101 357 mag until i saw and held it in person against the taurus 617. Nice gun gun but believe it or not i liked the taurus better! Love the dull bead blast finish on the taurus, the grip and the 7 shot cylinder. And it was the same size as the ruger actually alittle lighter just was a hair thicker in the cylinder and i mean a hair. Also about 150 bucks cheaper.
Originally Posted by tet4
January 3rd, 2012 12:20 PM
I much prefer the .44 Special as a "do-it-all" kind of cartridge to the .357 Magnum. The .44 Special may be handloaded to tailor it to most anything a handgun could reasonably be asked to do.
For the fellow who is going with factory loads though, the .357 Magnum is the way to go. It's more commonly available in stock on basic ammunition counters. There are four ammunition dealers in our small town. None carry .44 Special in stock yet all have a minimum of three types of .357 Magnum ammunition. The .357 Magnum also features a number of different load choices. The entire range of .38 Special ammunition may also be used in the .357 Magnum revolver. The .357 Magnum can also offer wide flexibility with handloading.
The .44 Special has long deserved more popularity than it possesses but the reality is that it's a specialty item for the revolver connoisseur rather than a staple item for the masses.
I'm another who would prefer a solid Smith & Wesson Model 10 .38 with a ratty surface appearance to a new Taurus anything. Cleaned and lubricated, the Smith & Wesson will give good service for the long haul and will possess a pleasing trigger and action. The Taurus will not feel so fine in use and can't be expected to last through years of rigorous use. There's some that probably do last but I've just happened to not have been around them and so make observations accordingly.
Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society
“No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”
Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893
January 3rd, 2012 02:56 PM
As Glockman 10mm says: If you're going with .357 magnum do a full-size guns, or 3" barrel, Smith & Wesson Model 13 has a nice 3", though this would be one you'd use 38Spl at the range and load with 357 for Carry. They can be found although not common. Not huge so good for Carry though likely significant recoil, but they're really nice looking old guns.
In a snub, 357 is not pleasant, in some light ones it's ridiculous and very hard to shoot on target repeatedly and quickly which is a must for SD. I shot one that hurt so much I never will again. One shot, that was it. Waste of money, unless an all steel snub and even then there's velocity loss and hard recoil.. I have an 60's Colt Detective .38 Spl, the epitome of snubs for many, shoots 6, I use it with Buffalo Bore Ammo, absolutely wicked ammo, just straight 38 special is plenty in their stuff, three types of 38 Special. Penetration for two of their 38 Special types is 16" to 18" gelatin test: a .38 spl ! - and not +p. (You wouldn't want +p, overkill and unpleasant to shoot). Anyway, I'd get a 38 snub or 3" or full-size and use Buffalo Bore. You'll be plenty lethal and be able to control the gun.
I have a Colt Python 357 magnum, weighs 40+ oz loaded and is arguably the Cadillac of revolvers. In that gun 357 is very easy and comfortable - but I don't carry it, the value but also the weight. So, to get a good comfortable platform for 357 is going to require a heavy gun and an expensive one and a full size one.
Shoot a .38 with Buffalo Bore instead. Carry that.
Buffalo Bore Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash .38 Special [it's good for long barrel of course too]
(take a look at specs on each of these. Buffalo Bore is a very well reviewed Ammo Company and their tests run and verified by others)
Here's one example: Hard Cast Wadcutter:
Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special Pistol and Handgun Ammo
Due to customer demand, we've developed this defensive 38SPL ammo. Our customers wanted some devastating 38SPL loads that would fill the following criteria.
1. It won't hurt older/fragile/alloy revolvers. (Non +P)
2. Is effective as a "fight stopper" through the use of proper bullets.
3. Is more powerful than typical/standard, weak 38SPL ammo.
4. Generate much less recoil than our +P 38SPL ammo.
5. Is flash suppressed.
Buffalo Bore is introducing these three different heavy, yet standard pressure loadings for 38 SPL. These offerings are loaded at standard pressure, but they are much more powerful than normal 38SPL ammo. These loads will not harm older more fragile revolvers. So, these loads are safe for use in ANY 38 SPL revolver, provided it is in normal working condition. As stated above, the "POWER" level of these loads is really closer to a typical +P power level, but the pressure is standard. We are able to develop these powerful standard pressure loads with modern non-canister powders. Again, these loads recoil far less than our +P 38 SPL ammo.
This load is flash suppressed, so firing it in the dark wont blind you. We use flash suppressed powder in our defensive ammo in the loadings whenever possible as over 90% of all civilian shootings in America, occur in low light, when the criminal element is at work. We don't want you blinded by your own gunfire after the first shot.
[B]Item 20D utilizes a very hard cast 150gr. WAD CUTTER bullet. The bullet is made hard, so it won't deform or mushroom. It cuts/crushes a "cookie cutter", full diameter hole in human flesh just like it does on a paper target. It penetrates deeply (roughly 14 to 16 inches in human tissue) and its full diameter profile maximizes blood loss as it cuts and crushes (not slips or slides) its way through tissue. Although I've never been shot with a full profile wad cutter bullet, I must assume that the initial impact of that wide flat nosed bullet, is crushingly formidable. As a teenager, I took to the woods on a regular basis and killed many a critter with heavily loaded 38SPL wad cutters'. The effect of a full profile wad cutter on small game was obvious and amazing, compared to regular round nosed bullets. That flat nose, literally hammers living things. These bullets are hard and properly lubed and will NOT lead your barrel. Note my velocities from real world "over the counter" revolver s- NOT test BARRELS!
a. S&W mod. 60, 2 inch barrel - 868 fps (251 ft. lbs.)
b. S&W mod. 66, 2.5 inch barrel - 890 fps (264 ft. lbs.)
c. Ruger SP101, 3 inch barrel - 961 fps (308 ft. lbs.)
d. S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch barrel - 1005 fps (336 ft. lbs.)
Item 20D - Exterior Ballistics Charts for different Muzzle Velocities
Muzzle Velocity @ 1200 fps for Item 20D
Muzzle Velocity @ 1100 fps for Item 20D
Muzzle Velocity @ 1000 fps for Item 20D
Muzzle Velocity @ 900 fps for Item 20D
Muzzle Velocity @ 800 fps for Item 20D
Field Proven pistol and handgun ammo. Maximum firepower ammo. Best ammunition for pistols and handguns for sale. Buffalo Bore. Strictly big bore. Strictly Business.
January 3rd, 2012 04:06 PM
Glockman10 is right
"the 38 spl M10's at Buds Gun shop. They are well
worth the 269.00 asking price. You would be much better off with one
of these loaded with hardcast 158 grn bullets than a short barreled
357 mag Tarus, even with the 50.00 charge of your FFL holder.
Do what you want. This is the best advice I know to give".
I second that.
I have a S&W Model 10-4 38 and is one the best pistols I own,,,
mine was a buy out from our LPD. 357 need 4 inch barrels ,,,, I
January 3rd, 2012 04:42 PM
What would Elmer Keith say? Of course, he reloaded his 44spl hot. I think the SP101 3" makes sense. Also I wouldn't mind shooting 44spl out of a 26 oz 4" S&W 329PD 44mag. That might make the best single all purpose gun.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
January 3rd, 2012 10:04 PM
i think both are really excellent rounds. as others note, the 357 is so widely available, and the 357 round is a proven defensive caliber. the 44 is beloved by its users- i think it has a mystique that is unique. but it is also harder to find and can be costly. as for walking the woods, 357 is a 4 inch barrel is simply excellent, and they make some 180 gr rounds that hit like the hammer of thor. so- either choice cannot be criticized- both would be absolutely excellent. i would say buy a good quality revolver like SW or ruger, and barrel length helps you in every way except concealment.
Six for sure...Uh, I mean Five. Five for sure..
January 3rd, 2012 10:21 PM
A 3" SP101 in 357 is hard to beat with regards to versatility. You can shoot or carry a large range of loads from 38 to 357, many grip options available, and you can go spurred or dao hammer and get a set of wolff springs to dial in the trigger pull to suit you.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.
January 3rd, 2012 10:22 PM
This is a very tough decision because their are so many opinions especially outside this forum on this subject as far as 357 vs 44special. Local gun shop has and sells both guns and basically said its like ford vs chevy cant go wrong with either! I told him the primary for this gun would be ccw with close second being woods carry. And when i asked if im trout fishing and lets say a black bear with cubs charges me i asked what one would you rather have? He said deffanetly the 44 special without a doubt!! Heavy wider bullet would be much better. He also stocks 44 special readily and sells a 50 round box for 32 dollars..
Originally Posted by chiefs-special-guy
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