Gun myth? Way back in the 80s, interstate carry illegal.

This is a discussion on Gun myth? Way back in the 80s, interstate carry illegal. within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Hopyard I don't quite have a firm idea of your position. Are you opposed to LEOSA? Opposed to that and also to ...

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Thread: Gun myth? Way back in the 80s, interstate carry illegal.

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I don't quite have a firm idea of your position. Are you opposed to LEOSA? Opposed to that and also to HR 822? Opposed to all
    CHL requirements?

    I'm not sure where you stand. Seems to me, LEOSA was a necessary change and improvement; as was FOPA, as will be 822 if it gets passed.

    I don't see any connection between LEOSA and "titles of nobility." I can understand why some might draw that connection, but
    really the comparison is quite lacking, IMO. If nothing else, titles of nobility are entirely lacking in any merit save genetics. LEOSA is based on past job experience. If you took your analogy to its greatest extreme there are all manner of job positions and categories which are licensed. These licenses are distinctly different from titles of nobility. And the main distinction is
    they are earned in one fashion or another, not merely conferred and inherited. A Governor is hardly in possession of a title of nobility, though he is in possession of both a title and privilege which go with the title. The recipient of a doctoral degree from a state university has a title, but not a "title of nobility."
    I am against the idea of giving any government worker more rights than a civilian has unless it is a necessity in the performance of his job. A retired carpenter should have the same right to carry as a retired cop or DA. To do otherwise is creating different classes of people.

    Michael
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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I am against the idea of giving any government worker more rights than a civilian has unless it is a necessity in the performance of his job. A retired carpenter should have the same right to carry as a retired cop or DA. To do otherwise is creating different classes of people.

    Michael
    Are you OK with LEOSA for active duty cops? Is your problem only with the "post retirement" aspect of it?

    And, isn't there a pragmatic argument that retired cops might run into some of their "old friends" which justifies this privilege they have?

    Of course I would prefer that 822 pass and all may carry interstate, but I hardly see this grant to retired officers and certain active duty officers as an affront to my sense of fair mindedness and fair play.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Are you OK with LEOSA for active duty cops? Is your problem only with the "post retirement" aspect of it?

    And, isn't there a pragmatic argument that retired cops might run into some of their "old friends" which justifies this privilege they have?

    Of course I would prefer that 822 pass and all may carry interstate, but I hardly see this grant to retired officers and certain active duty officers as an affront to my sense of fair mindedness and fair play.
    I know I come across as being a hard case and inflexible on this but I have a problem with special right for anyone. I do not like LEOSA as it does exactly that.
    And, isn't there a pragmatic argument that retired cops might run into some of their "old friends" which justifies this privilege they have?
    Many private citizens living in bad neighborhoods are just as justified in their need to carry. Maybe even more so as they do not go to a homes in a safer area at night. They have to stay with the criminals.

    Either we are equal or we are not. The government cannot really know or truly understand how the ordinary citizens have to live unless they also live under the same laws and rules.

    Michael

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldstar225 View Post
    I'm not sure we are talking about the same incident but one that I recall involving Sturgis went like this:

    During the rally at Sturgis an off-duty officer from a pacific coast state got into a confrontation with a group of outlaw bikers. During the confrontation he shot one of them. He was arrested and charged with unlawful carry. His attorney raised HR218 as a defense to the charge. The courts ruled that HR218 exempted the officer from the charge of unlawful carry.

    On a second point, yes the badge can and does matter outside the jurisdiction as established by HR218. In addition, in my state an officer may make an arrest for a felony or misdemeanor that occurs in his presence anywhere in the state. If this arrest happens outside his jurisdiction he has to turn the prisoner over to the agency that has jurisdiction.
    Any arrest made outside of your jurisdiction, is purely a citizens arrest. That's all it is.
    At least that is all it would be considered here. That's all "jurisdiction" is, is where you have the legal authority to work as an officer and enforcing the laws.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Of course I would prefer that 822 pass and all may carry interstate.
    All except citizens of states with no permits: VT, IL. And all except citizens of may issue states that don't issue: most of CA, NY, NJ, MA, MD, DC. 822
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    Wow, this has gotten off-track.

    To the OP, I have never heard that story, and I grew up in North Carolina and have been a LEO in both Virginia and now North Carolina. I do know that prior to 1995, NC LEOs couldn't legally carry concealed outside their jurisdictions while off-duty. That changed when shall-issue CCW went into effect on Dec. 1, 1995. After that, out-of-state LEOs were not allowed to carry concealed in NC unless they had a permit which NC honored (and that didn't start happening until around the same time as LEOSA anyway). North Carolina does not now, and never has, issued permits to non-residents. Prior to LEOSA even on-duty LEOs from other states were not allowed to carry in NC concealed, though they could carry openly in places that regular citizens could not, provided they were in NC on official business.

    If I had to guess, I would say that if there is any truth to the story, the actual arrest(s) were made for illegal CCW, not crossing state lines with firearms.
    -Landric

    "The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them" -Felix

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