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For You Whizz Kid Scientific Type Members - A Bizarre Hypothetical

4K views 48 replies 26 participants last post by  RevolvingMag 
#1 ·
My Lil' Brother asked me this question. I added the muzzle velocity and the handgun, caliber, & muzzle velocity for the purpose of adding something specific to work with.

I already gave him my answer. :yup: It was..."I Have Absolutely No Doggone Idea."

Here Goes It............

If you were an astronaut on the surface of the Moon and you had (let's say) a Ruger BlackHawk .44 Magnum 5.5" Barrel that was loaded with a Buffalo Bore bullet w/ an Earth Bound muzzle velocity of 1500 FPS - Could you fire a bullet at the Earth and hit the Earth if the bullet was made of some exotic alloy that wouldn't burn up in the Earths upper atmosphere?

Would a handgun bullet even be able to leave the (admittedly much lesser) gravitational pull of the Moon?

I'm just guessing that the bullet wouldn't lose velocity IF it actually made it off the Moon & into the vacuum of outer space.

If so...how long would it take for the bullet to reach the Earth?

I'm also guessing that some degree of Kentucky windage would be in order. :confused:
 
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#2 ·
Gunpowder would have difficulty functioning in an oxygen-less environment. So there's your first problem. Well, I suppose getting to the moon with a handgun is your FIRST problem, but....
 
#5 ·
I don't believe this is true.. ever seen guns firing underwater? All of the oxygen they need is inside the casing.

I saw some calculations on this once. You need a specific escape velocity. I don't remember what that is for the moon. Since there is no atmospheric drag, the velocity is basically all you have to worry about. With earth it is a bit more complicated. I seem to recall handgun rounds do not have enough velocity to escape the moon's gravity, but some high power rifle rounds just might.
 
#3 ·
Since the moon has approximatley 1/8 the gravity of the earth,that whimply little pistol round would never make it. Granted, it would go much higher on the moon, but it still wouldnt be enough to break gravity and shoot out into outer space.

If you were on the moon, you could fire away.
 
#4 ·
Gunpowder would have difficulty functioning in an oxygen-less environment.
Not really. Gunpowder produces its own oxygen, thus its ability to fire underwater. Think about it. There isnt enough space in a case to contain enough oxygen to sustain combustion.
 
#7 ·
I stand corrected. Though I actually knew that guns fire underwater, having their own oxidizer (and, assuming the case is sealed, it's own O2 in the case)... I was just looking for a way to get to the punchline. :)
 
#13 ·
design of rail guns in the 1970's used in a vacuum on the moon were to place into L1 or L2 lunar material to be fabricated
in lunar orbiting factories. idea was to make stuff that would take us on a manned exploration of our solar system. it was deemed too expensive at 3 trillion dollars....

of course a debt of 15.2 trillion is now money well spent keeping the unproductive with cutting edge toys and prsions....err, i mean educational facilities.
 
#16 ·
Well, that didn't take long and that pretty much solves that.

Moonians?? <~~~:hand5:

Don't we already have those in our airports here on Earth harassing people and selling flowers?
 
#17 ·
Moonians?? <~~~:hand5:

Don't we already have those in our airports here on Earth harassing people and selling flowers?
Nah. Moonians live on the moon and shoot at earth.
You are thinking of Moonies.Moonies are bald, wear pinkish robes,dance alot and are crazy.

Lots of difference there...
 
#19 ·
Well, even if one could make the escape velocity, I'm not sure that solves the problems. One problem would be if the sun's gravitational pull would pull the very slowly moving bullet toward it harder than the earth's gravitational pull. Also I'm not quite sure that one ever escapes gravity. After all, what influences the tide in our oceans? The gravitational pull of both the sun and the moon.

And as small and far away as Pluto is, Pluto is held in orbit by the sun's gravitational pull.
 
#27 ·
There are (I think) areas in our solar system where gravity is pretty much cancelled out buy the competing gravitational forces. There is an area between the Sun and Earth the orbital dynamics folks refer to as "L1" (don't know why) where they have "parked" some of the solar research observatories.
 
#21 ·
It would actually be somewhat less than Lunar escape velocity because that is for a non-return to free space. The effect of Earth's gravity field in that direction would lower the speed needed, but probably not anywhere near enough to make a difference.

If you could shoot a round fast enough, the path would be a complex double reverse spiral with a multiple day transit time. Groupings would be pretty poor I suspect.
 
#22 ·
the path would be a complex double reverse spiral with a multiple day transit time. Yeah...that's exactly what I was just thinking - whatever it was that you just said. :rofl:
 
#23 ·
A cool read is project HARP (high altitude research project), basically in the 60's a team attempted to shoot a projectile into orbit. Using a 16 inch gun they were able shoot a projectile 3600 m/s. That's roughly 10,800 fps. In 1966 at the Yuma AZ proving grounds they launched a projectile 180km high, which is the record that still stands today.
This was found on Wikipedia, but with further research looks legit.

I think that would beat the moons gravitational pull.
 
#28 ·
So answer me this...wouldn't a projectile that has a velocity of say 3000 fps here on earth, have a higher velocity on the moon, given the lighter gravitational pull?

Disclaimer: I am not a scientist, but I have watched many Bela Lugosi movies in my youth.
 
#49 ·
Enough for the whole state of Kentucky, maybe? :tongue:



I believe if you rub the ass of a cat with a corn cob dipped in turpentine he would not only reach lunar escape velocity,but exceed it
Duk... I hate you right now. I'm laughing so hard my wife is looking at me like I am a complete idiot. I tried to explain it to her, but I cannot stop laughing to get the words out. I got to the point where I was supposed to say what you posted, but I just CANNOT stop laughing.

-I really needed a laugh like that today. Thank you.
 
#37 ·
OMG, Duklalmighty! I am laughing so hard I'm crying! Maybe with the budget crunch, NASA could use something similar. On the HARP Project, research Gerald Bull. Quite an interesting fellow. HARP( high altitude research project) did succeed in shooting an object to the very edge of space. Pretty cool.
 
#39 ·
ok, only cause this seems fun...... has anybody considered that the velocity of a round on earth is limited my the earths thick atmosphere? on the moon there is significantly less if no atmpsphere at all...nothing to slow the round down except gravity. I wonder what the velocity of a round fired in a vacum would be? also, there are many many dime sized items zipping around in space at thousands of miles an hour. Just saying that there will be a big difference in velocity between a round fired on earth and on the moon....
 
#41 ·
The velocity relative to the gun would not change ... much. The lack of leading air in the barrel would increase it a little bit. The main difference is that the round would not slow down. You'd have the same velocity at a 1000 yards as the muzzle velocity.

We think of bullets as fast, but when the Apollo capsules first hit the Earth's atmosphere returning from the movie set ... er ... the Moon, they were doing 25 thousand miles per hour. In bullet terms, that's around 36000 ft/sec. At nearly 13 feet in diameter and weighing around 13000 lbs or 91 million grains, that is one big caliber!
 
#40 ·
I don't think the friction of air is big factor since we are speaking of muzzle velocities. However, an object getting through the 20+ miles of atmosphere leaving the earth is a really big deal.

As to aiming, can you imagine the amount of lead you would need? Literally you would have to lead by 2 days. Hmmm, maybe not, the moon always presents the same face to the earth so it would be like firing to the center of a circle, in effect, no lead?? Too much for me, my head hurts.
 
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