NRA: our gun rights coming to an end?

This is a discussion on NRA: our gun rights coming to an end? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I can't believe the denial. If the constitution is an out dated document of no relevance in his eyes you think the bill of rights ...

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  1. #46
    Member Array msb45's Avatar
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    I can't believe the denial. If the constitution is an out dated document of no relevance in his eyes you think the bill of rights has any meaning? Hillary is agreeing to the UN Small Arms treaty and will work toward getting is ratified in the Senate. Your AG is perjuring himself and arming drug cartels. Your president has an office in the white house to reach out to illegal aliens and is jailing border patrol agents. Regulations guide your life and religion and guns are a joke. My church is under a direct assault.

    At one point Hitler was a joke with some clowns in a fringe party running for office. POTUS is a much more powerful starting point. And Wayne Lapierre is the problem?
    Wow, just wow.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    No global or UN law can supersede the Constitution.

    Gun owners rights have actually expanded over the past decade, look at Heller, McDonald, WI concealed carry, National Park carry,

    Who exactly is going to collect all the guns? Anyone know of any LEO's that are willing to risk so much as to go house to house, day after day to collect guns from folks who are willing to die for them.

    The Reynolds company stock should be going through the roof.
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  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    ^^^^^^^WHAT^^^^^^^^^

    you folks are missing is that what they{the Feds} are going to use are Global, Multinational gun laws(UN) to sidestep the Constitution and our way of life, to conform to a more worldwide aspect of gun laws, the ability to have them, and what types, and calibers, how and for what you may use them, and how they are stored, which in some states is already a reality.

    All foreign treaties have to go through congress, not just the president. That's why congressional elections are as, if not more, important than presidential elections. Pay attention and vote.



    "The Senate's Role in Treaties
    The Constitution provides that the president "shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two-thirds of the Senators present concur" (Article II, section 2). The Constitution's framers gave the Senate a share of the treaty power in order to give the president the benefit of the Senate's advice and counsel, check presidential power, and safeguard the sovereignty of the states by giving each state an equal vote in the treatymaking process. "

    U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > Origins & Development > Powers & Procedures > Treaties
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  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    No global or UN law can supersede the Constitution.

    Gun owners rights have actually expanded over the past decade, look at Heller, McDonald, WI concealed carry, National Park carry,

    Who exactly is going to collect all the guns? Anyone know of any LEO's that are willing to risk so much as to go house to house, day after day to collect guns from folks who are willing to die for them.

    The Reynolds company stock should be going through the roof.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    All foreign treaties have to go through congress, not just the president. That's why congressional elections are as, if not more, important than presidential elections. Pay attention and vote.



    "The Senate's Role in Treaties
    The Constitution provides that the president "shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two-thirds of the Senators present concur" (Article II, section 2). The Constitution's framers gave the Senate a share of the treaty power in order to give the president the benefit of the Senate's advice and counsel, check presidential power, and safeguard the sovereignty of the states by giving each state an equal vote in the treatymaking process. "

    U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > Origins & Development > Powers & Procedures > Treaties
    Both of you are correct.
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    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb45 View Post
    I can't believe the denial. If the constitution is an out dated document of no relevance in his eyes you think the bill of rights has any meaning? Hillary is agreeing to the UN Small Arms treaty and will work toward getting is ratified in the Senate. Your AG is perjuring himself and arming drug cartels. Your president has an office in the white house to reach out to illegal aliens and is jailing border patrol agents. Regulations guide your life and religion and guns are a joke. My church is under a direct assault.

    At one point Hitler was a joke with some clowns in a fringe party running for office. POTUS is a much more powerful starting point. And Wayne Lapierre is the problem?
    Wow, just wow.
    No, fear mongering is the problem. I don't accept lies from my enemies or my "friends". This is our only hope because politicians (and lobbyists) rewarded by continued employment obtained by people who are willing to believe lies get - your guessed it - more lies. This is why 2A gets short shrift. I prefer my "leaders" stick to sound arguments based on facts.

    2A can stand up to the facts and the real threats to our liberties. It's time the people of this country did too.

    LaPierre says about the Supreme Court:

    "If we get one more like those three, the Second Amendment is finished," he said. "It'll be the end of our freedom forever."...
    "All of what we know is good and right about America, all of it could be lost if Barrack Obama is re-elected," he said. "It's all or nothing."
    SCOTUS has opined that the right to keep arms applies to individuals. Obama, who indeed appointed anti-2A justices with senate confirmation, or someone of the anti-2A bent as Obama in the near future, could stack SCOTUS against a similar recognition of the right to bear. But the last sentence is paranoia or hyperbole, and whomever Lapierre is addressing, it isn't me.
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    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array crue2009's Avatar
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    he didn't get my vote the first time and won't get my vote in 2012!!

  8. #52
    Member Array msb45's Avatar
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    So no one feels the constitution is under attack. But pay attention and vote. Stop wearing tin foil...

    You're 1 Supreme Court nomination from losing it all. Our precious senate is left of center. We're nearing the end of rule of law, doublespeak is the rule of the day. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. No budget in years to account to the people.

    Lincoln suspended habeous corpus and jailed people without recourse. Current POTUS has even more power under the latest legislation, oh yea he isn't Lincoln. Who would confiscate guns? California Highway Patrol went door to door in New Orleans to confiscate guns. How many really were returned? Who paid any compensation? Occupy wall street and union thugs are the brown shirts.

    German people laughing in 1932 weren't laughing in 1945. Your rights today are a slim remnant of even a hundred years ago. Laugh at me all you like, if I'm wrong great, if not God help us all. First checkpoint will be November-January transition of power. Today the constitution is the equivalent of Chamberlin's peace in our time agreement.

  9. #53
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    Oh, make no mistake, Obama would empty our safes if he could. But he won't because he can't. America wouldn't stand for it. Yeah, I know all about the antis and their ilk. As for the NRA, in all fairness, when have they not hit members up for money on a monthly basis? They need money to operate, and they know how to get it. If an anti is in office, they need your money to get him out. If a pro is in, they need your money to keep him in. Doesn't matter. I do believe in the NRA, and am certainly a member. Their methods may at times be questionable, but they do get results. Why else would they be such a powerful lobby?

    Remember the big gun rush after Obama got elected? If he wins again (God forbid) you will see another. And yeah, I'll be in the middle of it.

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolocanolo View Post
    If this thread lasts long enough and doesn't get "political" and closed by the administrator, we'll have all the "libs" on this forum come out in bunches. Their post will make you think they're pro 2A, but with code words that agree with Obama. Sure their right to free speech which I will defend, but disingenuous to this forum.
    Don't lable me a "lib", but maybe you prefer Nixon, the Republican's Republican, and one who told nationally syndicated columnist William Safire, "Guns are an abomination." And Safire quotes him, "Free from fear of gun owners' retaliation at the polls, he favored making handguns illegal and requiring licenses for hunting rifles." Nixon was re-elected on fear and lies - just the way he went out.
    Or maybe you want to go back to Bush I who banned AR's and spouted forth the test of "sporting purpose" for Americans' gun ownership (not sure what he'd do about the military and police).
    Or Reagan and the Mulford Act in CA effectively "prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one's person or in a vehicle, in any public place or on any public street." Prohibiting honest citizens, that is. Reagan also proudly signed the Brady bill - as a lame duck. And he had the scars to prove it.
    Don't think that your troubles are over even if Obama is defeated. Case in point, Romney.
    As we watch the polls and soak up the media drivel from the candidates' camps, don't forget it's a high-stakes public relations campaign that thickly veils the real issues. What am I talking about? Ask Ron Paul. He's one who gets it.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  11. #55
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    SCOTUS has opined that the right to keep arms applies to individuals. Obama, who indeed appointed anti-2A justices with senate confirmation, or someone of the anti-2A bent as Obama in the near future, could stack SCOTUS against a similar recognition of the right to bear. But the last sentence is paranoia or hyperbole, and whomever Lapierre is addressing, it isn't me.
    Not entirely correct. There are justices that keep the belief of an individual right intact. The NRA is correctly quoting sitting justices and their opinions on the 2A. With a bad appointment to the Supreme Court, the 2A could take a major hit. On that issue the NRA is correct. We do need to be worried.

    Let's face it. One of the justices is so far out there, she would not use our Constitution, the longest standing one in a free nation, to base a new nations set of laws on. That's Ruth Bader Ginsburg. She is so far out there on some issues, she really should not be on the Supreme Court. It's not that the beliefs are a porblem, but the Justices (her in particular over the rest) are increasingly going with personal feelings rather than written law and the precedents that have been set for politically devisive topics. That issue is once again a partisan issue, and not just limited to one side.

    On other topics the NRA goes on about, well, they do go with fear mongering to garner more funds. That's an undeniable fact.

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    SCOTUS has opined that the right to keep arms applies to individuals. Obama, who indeed appointed anti-2A justices with senate confirmation, or someone of the anti-2A bent as Obama in the near future, could stack SCOTUS against a similar recognition of the right to bear. But the last sentence is paranoia or hyperbole, and whomever Lapierre is addressing, it isn't me.
    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    Not entirely correct. There are justices that keep the belief of an individual right intact. The NRA is correctly quoting sitting justices and their opinions on the 2A. With a bad appointment to the Supreme Court, the 2A could take a major hit. On that issue the NRA is correct. We do need to be worried.
    There is nothing incorrect about my statement. The majority decision in Heller and McDonald solidifies individuals' right to keep arms. The point is inarguable and independent of current or future progressive makeup of the court. Any future legal question that would infringe on individuals' right to keep arms goes through Heller or McDonald.

    There are a lot of other gun regulations to challenge that Heller or McDonald do not resolve but that Constitutional Carry or a "Privileges or Immunities" interpretation of the 14th amendment (the Bill of Rights applies to the states) does.
    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    On other topics the NRA goes on about, well, they do go with fear mongering to garner more funds. That's an undeniable fact.
    Back to OP, the NRA is not only fear mongering but is entirely incorrect when it says,
    "If we get one more like those three, the Second Amendment is finished," he said. "It'll be the end of our freedom forever."...
    "All of what we know is good and right about America, all of it could be lost if Barrack Obama is re-elected," he said. "It's all or nothing."
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  13. #57
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    I thought Wayne LaPiere summed up the thoughts of American citizens about their RKBA pretty accurately in his speech to the U.N. Organization:
    NRA-ILA | Wayne LaPierre Remarks before the United Nations in opposition to the UN Arms Trade Treaty, July 2011

  14. #58
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    Funny how timing works Our Union sent out a statement Saying Obama supports All gun owner rights and always has. He fully support the 2nd.
    Then the good part. We can all agree that some reasonable legislation is needed to reduce the crime on our streets.... it goes on.
    Ends with to protect our rights we must support Obama in 2012.
    Enjoy what coming your going to love it.

  15. #59
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    At the end of the day it doesn't make a bit of difference what Mr. LaPierre or Mr. Obama says, it matters what we (as a voting majority) have to say. Don't make your voting decisions based on a letter, a press release, or opinions that you read on the Internet. Take the time to do some research and cast your vote based on facts and what's important to you. No candidate is ever going to be 100% in line with your personal values, but it's up to each of us to decide which issues are important enough make a difference when you enter the voting booth. Never in human history has so much information been available so easily, and yet we fail to use these resources to make informed decisions that will affect many aspects of our lives. It's oh-so-important that we vote, but we must vote with the knowledge and conviction that our vote reflects our opinion of who is best to lead us for the next term, and how the electee's actions (SCOTUS nominations, etc) will affect us for years to come.
    The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved

  16. #60
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    UN Agenda

    If you have not read Agenda 21 you may want to. It will no doubt take care of property rights and that will include guns. You may look funny rolling your gun safe around in a wheelbarrow. Read it....understand it and know where we are in today's society. The UN can and will take care of your right to own anything. Our "Muslim" in chief will have nothing to do with any of it. He is too weak to take that task alone.

    Blood will run in the streets and it will not be from knife wounds.

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