NRA: our gun rights coming to an end?

This is a discussion on NRA: our gun rights coming to an end? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Wheelspinner Farronwolf and harryball have not read Agenda 21 before attacking..............denial is contagious. I think that Farronwolf and harryball have made clear ...

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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspinner View Post
    Farronwolf and harryball have not read Agenda 21 before attacking..............denial is contagious.
    I think that Farronwolf and harryball have made clear that the UN can't touch our Constitution. Agenda 21? I prefer the Declaration of Independence with life, liberty, pursuit of property, as John Locke said it. I don't lose any sleep about the UN, though it wouldn't sadden me if they went away.

    Back to OP, what is frustrating is the lack of national leadership on defense of our liberties from enemies foreign and domestic that are driving the nation to bankruptcy ($15 Trillion - ).

    I believe the best chance to send a message to Washington is to work on the state and local level. Find a local gun rights group to inform you of the nearest best chance to elect a 2A / gun rights supporter. Work for that candidate. That's my plan.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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  3. #77
    Member Array Wheelspinner's Avatar
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    We have already seen how important the "Constitution" is to this administration. It is nothing more than an old piece of paper. The UN cares even less about our rights. There are some voices on this site that must be sleeping in late and not doing their homework at night.

  4. #78
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspinner View Post
    Farronwolf and harryball have not read Agenda 21 before attacking..............denial is contagious.
    Maybe you could enlighten us as to where in Agenda 21 there is a goal to disarm American Citizens.

    DSD :: Resources - Publications - Core Publications

    Of course my agenda is to be wealthier than Warren Buffett, but that doesn't mean it is going to happen. I like to spend too much time with my wife and kid doing fun stuff instead of working.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspinner View Post
    We have already seen how important the "Constitution" is to this administration. It is nothing more than an old piece of paper. The UN cares even less about our rights. There are some voices on this site that must be sleeping in late and not doing their homework at night.
    I agree, Wheelspinner. With Project Gunrunner / Fast and Furious, this administration is criminally violating international arms agreements already on the books. Politicians rarely find a great career in supporting and defending the letter of the Constitution or the law - until it's politically expedient - although Ron Paul's consistent voice is making headway. You haven't made a case for sounding the alarm about the UN's destroying 2A; but you want others to do your homework?
    OK. At least fifty-eight senators, including twelve democrats, have signed letters to President Obama in opposition to the UN ATT. The democratic senators say:
    [O]ther nations of the world may better adopt and enforce a more rigorous system of arms export controls. The senators urge the president to address their concerns that 1) the Arms Trade Treaty not regulate the domestic manufacture, possession or sales of firearms or ammunition, that 2) the treaty signatory countries maintain the exclusive authority to regulate arms within their own borders, that 3) the treaty exclude small arms, light weapons, ammunition or related materials that would make the treaty overly broad and unenforceable, and that 4) the treaty omit any sort of international gun registry that could impede upon the privacy rights of law-abiding gun owners.
    The democratic senators' names are:
    Jon tester (D - MT)
    Jeanne Shaheen (D - NH)
    Mark Begich (D - AK)
    Claire McCaskill (D - MO)
    Max Baucus (D - MT)
    Joe Manchin, III (D - WV)
    Mark L. Pryor (D - AR)
    Robert P. Casey, Jr. (D - PA)
    Tom Udall (D - NM)
    Ben Nelson (D - NE)
    Jim Webb (D - VA)
    Mark R. Warner (D - VA)
    Mark Udall (D - CO)
    The Republicans signed a letter by Senator Moran, that last two paragraphs of which say:
    Fifth, and finally, the underlying philosophy of the Arms Trade Treaty is that transfers to and from governments are presumptively legal, while transfers to non-state actors (such as terrorists and criminals) are, at best, problematic. We agree that sales and transfers to criminals and terrorists are unacceptable, but we will oppose any treaty that places the burden of controlling crime and terrorism on law-abiding Americans, instead of where it belongs: on the culpable member states of the United Nations who have failed to take the necessary steps to block trafficking that is already illegal under existing laws and agreements.

    As the treaty process continues, we strongly encourage your Administration to uphold our country’s constitutional protections of civilian firearms ownership. These freedoms are not negotiable, and we will oppose ratification of an Arms Trade Treaty presented to the Senate that in any way restricts the rights of law-abiding U.S. citizens to manufacture, assemble, possess, transfer or purchase firearms, ammunition, and related items.
    The Republican signatory senators are:
    Lamar Alexander (R-TN), Kelly Ayotte (R-NH), John Barrasso (R-WY), Roy Blunt (R-MO), John Boozman (R-AR), Scott Brown (R-MA), Richard Burr (R-NC), Dan Coats (R-IN), Tom Coburn (R-OK), Thad Cochran (R-MS), Susan Collins (R-ME), Bob Corker (R-TN), John Cornyn (R-TX), Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), Mike Crapo (R-ID), Jim DeMint (R-SC), Mike Enzi (R-WY), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Chuck Grassley (R-IA), Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Dean Heller (R-NV), John Hoeven (R-ND), Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX), James Inhofe (R-OK), Johnny Isakson (R-GA), Mike Johanns (R-NE), Ron Johnson (R-WI), Jon Kyl (R-AZ), Mike Lee (R-UT), John McCain (R-AZ), Mitch McConnell (R-KY), Jerry Moran (R-KS), Lisa Murkowski (R-AK), Rand Paul (R-KY), Rob Portman (R-OH), Jim Risch (R-ID), Pat Roberts (R-KS), Marco Rubio (R-FL), Jeff Sessions (R-AL), Richard Shelby (R-AL), Olympia Snowe (R-ME), John Thune (R-SD), Pat Toomey (R-PA), David Vitter (R-LA), and Roger Wicker (R-MS).

    Lastly, this site says
    The U.S. Supreme Court has made it very clear that

    1) Treaties do not override the U.S. Constitution.
    2) Treaties cannot amend the Constitution. And last,

    3) A treaty can be nullified by a statute passed by the U.S. Congress (or by a sovereign State or States if Congress refuses to do so), when the State deems a treaty the performance of a treaty is self-destructive. The law of self-preservation overrules the law of obligation in others. When you've read this thoroughly, hopefully, you will never again sit quietly by when someone -- anyone -- claims that treaties supercede the Constitution. Help to dispell this myth.

    "This [Supreme] Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty." - Reid v. Covert, October 1956, 354 U.S. 1, at pg 17.

    This case involved the question: Does the NATO Status of Forces Agreement (treaty) supersede the U.S. Constitution? Keep reading.

    The Reid Court (U.S. Supreme Court) held in their Opinion that,

    "... No agreement with a foreign nation can confer power on the Congress, or any other branch of government, which is free from the restraints of the Constitution. Article VI, the Supremacy clause of the Constitution declares, "This Constitution and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all the Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land...’
    "There is nothing in this language which intimates that treaties and laws enacted pursuant to them do not have to comply with the provisions of the Constitution nor is there anything in the debates which accompanied the drafting and ratification which even suggest such a result...

    "It would be manifestly contrary to the objectives of those who created the Constitution, as well as those who were responsible for the Bill of Rights – let alone alien to our entire constitutional history and tradition – to construe Article VI as permitting the United States to exercise power UNDER an international agreement, without observing constitutional prohibitions. (See: Elliot’s Debates 1836 ed. – pgs 500-519).

    "In effect, such construction would permit amendment of that document in a manner not sanctioned by Article V. The prohibitions of the Constitution were designed to apply to all branches of the National Government and they cannot be nullified by the Executive or by the Executive and Senate combined."
    I used to feel as you do, Wheelspinner, until I did my homework.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    We can comfortably rest assured that the U.N. Org., et al, cannot force any gun control treaties upon U.S. citizens that infringes upon our sovereign Individual RKBA without the concurrence of the U.S. Senate, which is why we need to stay vigilant and vote for the right kind of people to represent us in Washington.

    Gun Control, Hillary Clinton, Obama and The UN Arms Trade Treaty | Franklin County Va. Patriots – Fighting For Freedon At The Grassroots Level
    Last edited by CURMUDGEON5; February 13th, 2012 at 05:32 AM.

  7. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    I agree, Wheelspinner. With Project Gunrunner / Fast and Furious, this administration is criminally violating international arms agreements already on the books. Politicians rarely find a great career in supporting and defending the letter of the Constitution or the law - until it's politically expedient - although Ron Paul's consistent voice is making headway. You haven't made a case for sounding the alarm about the UN's destroying 2A; but you want others to do your homework?
    OK. At least fifty-eight senators, including twelve democrats, have signed letters to President Obama in opposition to the UN ATT. The democratic senators say:
    The democratic senators' names are:
    Jon tester (D - MT)
    Jeanne Shaheen (D - NH)
    Mark Begich (D - AK)
    Claire McCaskill (D - MO)
    Max Baucus (D - MT)
    Joe Manchin, III (D - WV)
    Mark L. Pryor (D - AR)
    Robert P. Casey, Jr. (D - PA)
    Tom Udall (D - NM)
    Ben Nelson (D - NE)
    Jim Webb (D - VA)
    Mark R. Warner (D - VA)
    Mark Udall (D - CO)
    The Republicans signed a letter by Senator Moran, that last two paragraphs of which say:

    The Republican signatory senators are:
    Lamar Alexander (R-TN), Kelly Ayotte (R-NH), John Barrasso (R-WY), Roy Blunt (R-MO), John Boozman (R-AR), Scott Brown (R-MA), Richard Burr (R-NC), Dan Coats (R-IN), Tom Coburn (R-OK), Thad Cochran (R-MS), Susan Collins (R-ME), Bob Corker (R-TN), John Cornyn (R-TX), Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), Mike Crapo (R-ID), Jim DeMint (R-SC), Mike Enzi (R-WY), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Chuck Grassley (R-IA), Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Dean Heller (R-NV), John Hoeven (R-ND), Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX), James Inhofe (R-OK), Johnny Isakson (R-GA), Mike Johanns (R-NE), Ron Johnson (R-WI), Jon Kyl (R-AZ), Mike Lee (R-UT), John McCain (R-AZ), Mitch McConnell (R-KY), Jerry Moran (R-KS), Lisa Murkowski (R-AK), Rand Paul (R-KY), Rob Portman (R-OH), Jim Risch (R-ID), Pat Roberts (R-KS), Marco Rubio (R-FL), Jeff Sessions (R-AL), Richard Shelby (R-AL), Olympia Snowe (R-ME), John Thune (R-SD), Pat Toomey (R-PA), David Vitter (R-LA), and Roger Wicker (R-MS).

    Lastly, this site says


    I used to feel as you do, Wheelspinner, until I did my homework.


    This is so comforting...........all these names, resolutions, senators signing letters to Obama. And you are still not getting the message put forth in Agenda 21. The UN does not give a crap about our senators or our rights. But since you explained it away I can now rest better at night. Thanks, I can put away my concerns. All I have to worry about now is whether the UN can FUND something.

  8. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspinner View Post
    This is so comforting...........all these names, resolutions, senators signing letters to Obama. And you are still not getting the message put forth in Agenda 21. The UN does not give a crap about our senators or our rights. But since you explained it away I can now rest better at night. Thanks, I can put away my concerns. All I have to worry about now is whether the UN can FUND something.
    OK, I am curious. What is your solution to this problem. You have been voicing your concerns but what is your recommendations

  9. #83
    Member Array Wheelspinner's Avatar
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    This may help you Pistology............it is about control............that may include gun's, ya' think ?

    Joyce Morrison -- Why Are Americams Ignorant of 'Agenda 21'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Funny how timing works Our Union sent out a statement Saying Obama supports All gun owner rights and always has. He fully support the 2nd.
    Then the good part. We can all agree that some reasonable legislation is needed to reduce the crime on our streets.... it goes on.
    Ends with to protect our rights we must support Obama in 2012.
    Enjoy what coming your going to love it.
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspinner View Post
    This may help you Pistology............it is about control............that may include gun's, ya' think ?

    Joyce Morrison -- Why Are Americams Ignorant of 'Agenda 21'?
    Nice article. I like this part:
    In 1992, Agenda 21 began to change our lives. In that same year, Al Gore wrote his book, Earth in the Balance. To advance his cause, he has now written another piece of fiction entitled, An Inconvenient Truth about global warming…..he even starred in the movie. He also thinks he invented the internet.
    But nowhere after she makes that claim does she state how our lives have been changed.

    Still waiting for your ideas on what we can do.

  12. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspinner View Post
    This may help you Pistology............it is about control............that may include gun's, ya' think ?

    Joyce Morrison -- Why Are Americams Ignorant of 'Agenda 21'?
    Exponentially-growing population in the face of ever-diminishing resources is actually a ruse designed to take my guns?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  13. #87
    Member Array Wheelspinner's Avatar
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    I am puzzled why it is soooo difficult to understand that UN control will have a teeny tiny effect on ownership of anything, including guns. Is this over some's head's or what ?

  14. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelspinner View Post
    I am puzzled why it is soooo difficult to understand that UN control will have a teeny tiny effect on ownership of anything, including guns. Is this over some's head's or what ?
    OK, I am done with this troll. Either show where it is going to take our guns and your ideas on how to prevent it.

  15. #89
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    "The UN goal is to move the United States into global government by environment regulation and a vast network of taxes. These newly imposed taxes will give the UN a tremendous stream of money in addition to US dues and congressional appropriations. Agenda 21 is a comprehensive master plan to reshape and control the US and lock us into the clutches of the UN under the innocuous phrase "Sustainable Development".Agenda 21 was adopted as a "soft law" instead of by treaty."

    This is from a report by Phillis Schlafly dated December 2011 titled "The Mischief of Agenda 21"

    Our government has for the last 30 years or more sold us out to the UN much the same way Obama has sold Arizona out to the UN over the illegals. It is my sincere hope that nobody thinks that electing a "new" president will change this trend of power the UN has over our lives. As for "my plan"... I hope nobody in this forum thinks I have a plan to change this. It is only a comment I made in my original post that we should look at this and discuss it. Look at the play and not the players.

    Calling me a "troll" and asking for "my solution" seems rather left wing to me. If I had a solution you would possibly know me as a "senior member"

  16. #90
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I am not worried about it. What ever the heck a "soft law" means it has no bearing on the Constitution. As far as your thinking that changing presidents will have no change on this then I guess you can live in fear and in a stat of no hope. Of course elections can change any trend. You are telling me that if Ron Paul was elected he would abide by the UN LOL. Even people on the left don't like when other countries tell us what to do. You are entitled to your opinion and that is cool. I am still trying to see how the UN has affected legislation.
    As fa as being sold out to the UN, you need to come up with facts, not suppostition, not theories. I am sure you can find some nut in congress who has made a statement here or there and probably out of context. But being sold out, come on. How about Kosovo? We went to the UN and they said nope, can't go there. We blew them off and went in under the guise of NATO (which is another subject altogether). How about Libya? UN said nope, we attacked them anyway. I got plenty more. Doesn't sound like we are beholden to them t me. How about when we were not on the human rights council, didn't really bug us. Resolutions on torture and Gitmo. Yeah, we stopped becasue of the pressure right. War on drugs, mine treaties, need more.
    I am so glad I invested in tin foil

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