NRA: our gun rights coming to an end?

This is a discussion on NRA: our gun rights coming to an end? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by suntzu So it was the evil democrats that had a hand in it. Wow, guess Bush isn't as responsible now is he. ...

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Thread: NRA: our gun rights coming to an end?

  1. #106
    Ex Member Array AdBro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    So it was the evil democrats that had a hand in it. Wow, guess Bush isn't as responsible now is he. He asked for it, pushed for it using fear, and signed it. Yup, not all his fault.
    I didn't say that at all, and actually said how I won't defend him in the exact quote you quoted. I'm not sure if this discussion is very helpful with you.

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  3. #107
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    I was just addressing that you mentioned dems were for it. I was responding to your question on how Bush dumped on the Constitution equivalant to Obama. And it will be hard for anybody to blatantly do worse than Bush. But if I misunderstood ya, sorry.

  4. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Patriot Act. I will stop there.
    Yep, Yep again, And hell yes just in case you didnt hear....G.W. Bush is a progressive republican. This crap is on both sides of the isle....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  5. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdBro View Post
    We just discussed the Patriot Act above--and I don't really get how else his elections could have gone. More and more are going to be like that. Just look at the psychos in WI that are trying to recall like 10 different people a year after they were elected.
    The other replies regarding the patriot act came while I was typing. Phone keyboards are really slow.

    Unfortunately, I think you're correct in terms of elections being contested more and more. A friend likes to say that there are four boxes when it comes to politics that usually get used in order: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box. We're definitely at the jury box and I think we're headed, or rather being pushed, towards the fourth.

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  6. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    his crap is on both sides of the isle....
    you're right...it doesn't matter what side of the aisle the politician in on, much is moving in the wrong direction (other than with Paul Ryan and Scott Walker, of course :) ). However, my point is Obama is the most enormous threat yet. While almost every politician is bad, I see Obama as the WORST. That'a all.

  7. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    Unfortunately, I think you're correct in terms of elections being contested more and more. A friend likes to say that there are four boxes when it comes to politics that usually get used in order: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box. We're definitely at the jury box and I think we're headed, or rather being pushed, towards the fourth.

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    totally. That is until we turn into Greece and need to vote for conservatives out of survival rather than voting for the guy that can give the voter the most

  8. #112
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    Bush also passed the No Child Left Behind act that has had a detrimental effect on the educational structure of the US. Well, at least in all of the states, areas, that had a solid system in place. It's based on good intentions, but in the end, the road to Hell is paved with those same good intentions.

    Let's not also mention that President Bush made another alphabet soup agency instead of bolstering the existing ones that are doing parts (if not all) of the same duties. The Homeland Security Agency is a farce.

    Both Bush and Obama passed bailout bills instead of letting people and businesses fall. No lessons about fiscal responsibility have been learned because so many were not allowed to feel the effects of the mismanagement of funds.

    Obama somehow got a health care plan passed that no one read.

    He also has a sitting head of an agency that has outright lied to inquiring congressional leaders trying to promote an anti-2A agenda.

    All in all, we have had less than stellar results with the last two Presidents. I'm hoping the next one does better. One that is not anti-2A as well. We as the voters have to try and do our part to make the US better.

  9. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdBro View Post
    you're right...it doesn't matter what side of the aisle the politician in on, much is moving in the wrong direction (other than with Paul Ryan and Scott Walker, of course :) ). However, my point is Obama is the most enormous threat yet. While almost every politician is bad, I see Obama as the WORST. That'a all.
    Please see the part in bold. My question to you is why and what has he done that has been so horrific? Let's please discuss specific things that he has or has not done rather than the vague socialism statements (more fear mongering). As we have stated previously, in regards to 2A issues, so far he has been mostly a do nothing, which is far better than many have done. F&F was a joke, yet if it were really that big of an issue he would have been impeached like Clinton (who was impeached, just not removed). Ok, he has appointed a couple of SCOTUS justices, but so have other presidents. In regards to the last few posts, what has Bush done, well here is another one: appointed Clarence Thomas, whose integrity I question. So deficit spending has gone up under him, again so what, he is no where near unique in this regard, yet he is the first one that has had public battles with congress over it every time for the purpose of political theatre, then again for many this country is STILL in the most sever recession that any of us have ever known (an irrationally exuberant DOW doesn't equal a healthy economy).

    While were at it, you apparently want to put Walker on a pedestal. As I live about 750 miles away from WI, it is hard for me to concern myself with it too much, but it looks to me like his big foobar was to try and outlaw unions. A mistake that may prove costly.
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  10. #114
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    Obama isn't going to confiscate weapons now or if he is reelected because he waffles, compromises, or backs down entirely anytime any of his initiatives encounter any kind of resistance. While he may not be running for reelection after a second term, his fellow Democrats in the House and Senate will be and they want no part of gun control legislation for the most part. Despite the egos of their politicians, New York, Illinois, and California don't dictate policy for the rest of the country. Having lost control of the House and fearful of losing the Senate, Democrats aren't looking for another issue to get conservatives fired up.
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  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    While were at it, you apparently want to put Walker on a pedestal. As I live about 750 miles away from WI, it is hard for me to concern myself with it too much, but it looks to me like his big foobar was to try and outlaw unions. A mistake that may prove costly.
    Well, most relevant to this forum is the fact that he gave us our concealed carry rights, making us the 49th state to allow it. He ALSO gave us a castle doctrine. Do those two things mean NOTHING on this board?

    As far as unions go, all he did was give the ability to workers to opt out of being in their PUBLIC (not private) unions so their pay checks are not automatically docked money to the union. He also is making them pay half the average of what private workers pay for benefits (and great ones at that) and about 5% to their pensions (almost non-existent in the private sector)...that's IT...that's what ALL the stink is about. It's 100% created by the PUBLIC unions (again, private unions have nothing to do with this...private unions are not nearly the same)...now, our budget is balanced fro the first time in a decade at least and property taxes have dropped for the first time I can remember.

    Walker is a taxpayers and gun owners HERO...I honestly can't say enough good things about him. He also avoided public worker layoffs that where imminent because of our budget hole (SEE: ILLINOIS AND OHIO).

  12. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    Obama isn't going to confiscate weapons now or if he is reelected because he waffles, compromises, or backs down entirely anytime any of his initiatives encounter any kind of resistance. While he may not be running for reelection after a second term, his fellow Democrats in the House and Senate will be and they want no part of gun control legislation for the most part. Despite the egos of their politicians, New York, Illinois, and California don't dictate policy for the rest of the country. Having lost control of the House and fearful of losing the Senate, Democrats aren't looking for another issue to get conservatives fired up.
    these are pretty good points. I hope they are correct.

  13. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    Obama isn't going to confiscate weapons now or if he is reelected because he waffles, compromises, or backs down entirely anytime any of his initiatives encounter any kind of resistance. While he may not be running for reelection after a second term, his fellow Democrats in the House and Senate will be and they want no part of gun control legislation for the most part. Despite the egos of their politicians, New York, Illinois, and California don't dictate policy for the rest of the country. Having lost control of the House and fearful of losing the Senate, Democrats aren't looking for another issue to get conservatives fired up.
    Looked under the hood of your car lately?

    Or wondered where all the shade-tree mechanics have gone?
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  14. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdBro View Post
    As far as unions go, all he did was give the ability to workers to opt out of being in their PUBLIC (not private) unions so their pay checks are not automatically docked money to the union. He also is making them pay half the average of what private workers pay for benefits (and great ones at that) and about 5% to their pensions (almost non-existent in the private sector)...that's IT...that's what ALL the stink is about. It's 100% created by the PUBLIC unions (again, private unions have nothing to do with this...private unions are not nearly the same)...now, our budget is balanced fro the first time in a decade at least and property taxes have dropped for the first time I can remember.
    There seems to be some confusion or contention regarding exactly what the bill would do. Spending the last 10 minutes doing a search isn't providing a lot of insight either. Some (admittedly Republican) publications state it like you did, that it makes unionization an option. Other publications state that, "The legislation limits collective bargaining to wages for all public employees in Wisconsin except for police and firefighters", which is a lot closer to the recollection I have that it would outlaw collective bargaining. One of the key purposes of unions is to force a balance of power between management and labor in both the public and private sector. I think it is intuitively obvious that there needs to be such a balance or else the company will fail in the long term. With respect to the public employees benefits, as a public employee I will attest to the fact that it isn't the gold mine that some would believe it to be. What is true is that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

    In terms of gaining 2A support, I will grant you that is a positive, as is a balanced state budget. It would seem, though, that he either stepped on an awful lot of toes, or the wrong toes and it may cost.

    Let us be careful that don't get off track with this line of argument. The point wasn't unions, or public employee benefits. The point was that to say Conservative / Rep = pro-2A and Liberal / Dem = anti-2A is ludicrous. There are 2A supporters and opponents in both parties. If you happen to believe that your favorite political party is the best thing since frozen orange juice, knock yourself out. Just realize that DC is not the place to raise this point.

  15. #119
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    Hello!!!!!!!!!!Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I been saying this for 3 years. What we have seen from Hussein so far is RESTRAINT. Why? Because he wants to get re-elected. When he wins in 2012, AND HE WILL WIN thanks to the non voting gun owners. Ask your friends, family, and co-workers how many didn't vote in 2008. MOST DID NOT.

    The anti's will show up to vote to TAKE YOUR GUNS, gun owners sit at home and complain. It was once said "People get the type of government they DESERVE." Those, including THOUSANDS on here just don't want to bother taking 30 minutes to vote. Ask the members from England, Australia, or Canada if it is easier to vote to KEEP your rights than try to get them back.

  16. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    The point was that to say Conservative / Rep = pro-2A and Liberal / Dem = anti-2A is ludicrous. There are 2A supporters and opponents in both parties. If you happen to believe that your favorite political party is the best thing since frozen orange juice, knock yourself out. Just realize that DC is not the place to raise this point.
    totally agree; however, many of the liberals/dems in power now have a much more anti-gun pattern than the other side.

    as far as collective bargaining goes, the things like public union members contributing a small portion to their benefits and giving the local school districts the ability to use non-union owned insurers (as in, them not having a monopoly over what insurance is purchased...WEAC Trust) would have been impossible to implement. they can still collectively bargain over wages, just not benefits. JUST like the obama/federal gov has for federal employees. it's really not a big deal at all. the public unions are just in a HUGE hissy fit because they know more members are not going to pay into the union when they are given the option, and school districts are not going to use their insurance because of the artificial markup from when they had the monopoly over it.

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