Juneau gun shop owner "off the books sale"???

This is a discussion on Juneau gun shop owner "off the books sale"??? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Not sure where this should go. If this is not the place, sorry. ----- Bad cases make bad law. Hope this stays local to AK ...

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    Juneau gun shop owner "off the books sale"???

    Not sure where this should go. If this is not the place, sorry.

    -----

    Bad cases make bad law. Hope this stays local to AK as an isolated case.

    IMHO, even if he if found to be in the wrong, One dealer in 50,000 dealers (or 0.002%) shouldn’t taint the rest or become the justification for new law or regulations. But we know the Brady Bunch.

    Juneau gun shop owner at heart of AK Supreme Court case | Juneau Empire - Alaska's Capital City Online Newspaper


    Juneau gun shop owner at heart of AK Supreme Court case

    Posted: March 5, 2012 - 12:02am

    By EMILY RUSSO MILLER
    JUNEAU EMPIRE

    On Aug. 2, 2006, a man walked into Rayco Sales gun shop in Juneau and asked to look at a .22 caliber rifle. The store owner, Ray Coxe, and the man examined and talked about the gun together, and Coxe gave the man a quote — $195.

    The man didn’t buy the gun and picked up his backpack as if to leave the store. When Coxe walked into the back of the store, the man, later identified as Jason Coday, took the rifle and left two $100 bills on the counter.

    Two days later, the man used the rifle to murder a 26-year-old man working at the Juneau Fred Meyer whom he had never met before in an unprovoked attack. It was Juneau’s first murder in five years.

    Was it an illegal sale off the books? The question now goes before the Alaska Supreme Court. Or rather, the question of whether that should be a question for a jury to decide now goes before the Supreme Court. Oral arguments in the matter were held last week in Juneau.

    Jonathan Lowy with the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence in Washington, D.C., who is co-counsel with Mark Choate on behalf of the family of the murdered Simone Young Kim, argued that Coxe sells guns off the books then later claims that they are missing. Lowy said a previous audit of Rayco Sales found 200 guns missing from the inventory.

    “To put that in context, 90 percent of gun dealers have zero guns missing from inventory,” Lowy said. “ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives), they looked at the worst of the worst as far as gun dealers in this country. Out of 800,000 gun dealers, they found 16 in the entire nation who had that sort of total.”

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    I'd say he has a problem.
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    Sounds to me like we are only hearing one side of this story. There are two more that need to be found; the other side, and the truth.
    Hopyard and Honk like this.
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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    im with lost...
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    Reads like Brady group wrote the article. One of the comments says that the owner did report the gun stolen, although 200 missing guns does not sound like he has good controls/security in place at the least.

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    Hmmm....sounds fishy to me.

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    On Aug. 2, 2006, a man walked into Rayco Sales gun shop in Juneau and asked to look at a .22 caliber rifle. The store owner, Ray Coxe, and the man examined and talked about the gun together, and Coxe gave the man a quote — $195.

    The man didn’t buy the gun and picked up his backpack as if to leave the store. When Coxe walked into the back of the store, the man, later identified as Jason Coday, took the rifle and left two $100 bills on the counter.
    How is this a sale? The owner has to be in on the transaction for a sale to take place. If a person takes takes something from you without your knowledge but leaves money fro it do you sell it to him?
    Jonathan Lowy with the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence in Washington, D.C., who is co-counsel with Mark Choate on behalf of the family of the murdered Simone Young Kim, argued that Coxe sells guns off the books then later claims that they are missing. Lowy said a previous audit of Rayco Sales found 200 guns missing from the inventory.
    If this is the case and can be proven then yes it was an off the books sale. If the Government can prove he does this on a regular basis he should go down. My question is this. Why did the Government wait until someone was killed if they had a record of this dealer doing business in this manner?
    “To put that in context, 90 percent of gun dealers have zero guns missing from inventory,” Lowy said. “ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives), they looked at the worst of the worst as far as gun dealers in this country. Out of 800,000 gun dealers, they found 16 in the entire nation who had that sort of total.
    If these dealers are indeed breaking the law why are they not being prosecuted?

    Michael
    msgt/ret, l1a1 and DaveH like this.

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    this is a long gun, not a handgun
    I do not know the laws regarding long gun sales in AK

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    What gun shop owner walks into the back of a store with a customer in the store that then steals a gun without the Shop owner knowing it ? Sounds like this scenario

    ,I need a rifle for huntin small game,this here is a dandy,I don't think I can pass a background check,I gotta go check sumpin in da back a da store if I come back and theres 200.00 on the counter but the gun is gone it ain't like I could report it stolen ..
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    In Alaska, a Showdown of Lawyers, Guns, and Bush-Era Firearms Law - Andrew Cohen - National - The Atlantic

    In Alaska, a Showdown of Lawyers, Guns, and Bush-Era Firearms Law

    By Andrew Cohen
    Mar 5 2012, 1:05 PM ET

    Last Tuesday, the Supreme Court of Alaska heard argument in an extraordinary case about gun control, federalism, and so-called "tort reform." At the heart of Kim v. Coxe is the question of how state judges ought to apply a Bush-era law, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which was designed and enacted by Congress to protect gun manufacturers and dealers from lawsuits and liability for crimes committed with their weapons.

    When the Alaskan high court (right now it includes only four justices) issues its ruling, it will represent the first time a state supreme court was weighed in on the federal statute. The case has drawn the attention of the Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence, and gun rights advocates,and has even generated an intervention from the Justice Department, whose federal lawyers are defending the constitutionality of the 2005 statute.

    The justices will be mulling it over at a politically auspicious time. The legislators who support the Arms Act, a weighty example of federal intrusion into traditional state matters, are many of the same politicians who are desperately opposed to the Affordable Care Act. The same folks crusading for states' rights and individual responsibilities are the same ones who, through the Arms Act, want to keep gun-liability issues away from state jurors.

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    The shop owner's story doesn't quite pass the sniff test, IMO.

    And Dave is 110% right that bad cases result in bad case law. I am not so sure this falls into that
    category.

    Think of it like this. Car dealers are supposed to report cash sales; as anyone else when the transaction
    goes above 10 K. Or maybe more accurately when they take the cash for deposit to a bank.

    Would a car dealer not report a car taken from his lot simply because 20 K in cash showed up on his desk while
    he was in the repair shop? Any normal honest person would know that there was something up; if only that
    a transaction like this one didn't allow for a completion of transfer of the title, to say nothing of leaving the dealer with
    a stack of cash to report at the bank.

    It just doesn't smell right, and I think Duke is probably about spot on with the explanation.

    Now, with all that said, I do remember the days when you bought your rifles at the hardware store, with cash,
    and no paper work-- not even an ID. Whether or not society wants to go back to those days, or even whether or not
    the majority of gun owners want to go back to those days, is highly questionable in my mind.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Now, with all that said, I do remember the days when you bought your rifles at the hardware store, with cash,
    and no paper work-- not even an ID. Whether or not society wants to go back to those days, or even whether or not
    the majority of gun owners want to go back to those days, is highly questionable in my mind.


    Remember it well.

    Also, bought cases of straight dynamite and/or combination dynamite & sodium nitrate sticks and/or kegs of "Corn powder" (a.k.a large grain black powder) with out ID.

    In fact, bought firearms and blasting supplies before I was 16.
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    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I remember a day when a 12 year old boy could walk down the street with a .22 rifle over one shoulder and a rabbit over the other and the only thing anyone said about it was "Good Huntin!!!" Today, someone would call the local police, who would in turn call the Game Warden, State Police, SBI, FBI, PETA, Social Services, the newspaper, etc. It would not only be a Federal case, but a youtube sensation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post


    Remember it well.

    Also, bought cases of straight dynamite and/or combination dynamite & sodium nitrate sticks and/or kegs of "Corn powder" (a.k.a large grain black powder) with out ID.

    In fact, bought firearms and blasting supplies before I was 16.
    So Dave, the question of utmost importance is do we want to go back to those days and ways (I think yes) and how do we get there when half the participants here think carrying an ID and showing it for everything is normal.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    So Dave, the question of utmost importance is do we want to go back to those days and ways (I think yes) and how do we get there when half the participants here think carrying an ID and showing it for everything is normal.
    Want to? You bet I do.

    Expect to? Doubt it.

    How to get there? Don't have a clue. Promoting Constitutional Carry would be a baby step start, IMHO.
    BugDude likes this.
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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