Question to hunter

[dukalmighty]

I have hunted up until I was injured,my second and last Deer was shot from the passenger seat of my jeep on a hill with a wide field of view and any round was going into the ground behind the target(Handicapped Hunter) You can't shoot from the roadway.I always hunted for the meat,but never got into deer hunting especially when everybody is looking for a Buck with a trophy rack.Last year I hunted Dove on 2 different days,even tho I get a "free" disabled vet Super Combo hunt/fishing license

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Sig35seven]

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Killing an animal in no way equates with murder. Murder is the taking of a human life, there is no murder of animals unless you happen to be tree hugging liberal that equates chopping down a tree with murdering it. If you beleive that, then there is nothing any one here can say to change your mind.



What is your version of "true hunting"? Is that different than false hunting or fake hunting?

You arent making much sense here. In one sentence you say getting excited about killing an animal is on par with murder and in another you say getting excited about putting meat in the freezer is something completley different, when in fact it is not.

Your version of hunting is obviously different than mine and the people that you hang out with apparently are not at all like the people I hang out with when hunting.

Let me try to take out the confusion. It's very simple and straight forward.

As the dictionary defines murder, taken at face value, you are correct. Only humans can be murdered.

So let me explain why I used that term 'murder'. If you believe, as I do that the human being is a living breathing animal (The human's phylum is Chordata (vertebrate). The human's class is mammalia. It's order is primate (the same as apes) then, you could say we belong to a certain group of mammals. We are just one of many in the group. So the example of shooting other living, breathing creatures purely for the fun and thrill of killing fits the basic description of murder. I use the term 'murder' as an analogy to describe senseless killing of an animal similar to killing the human animal. (Certainly you understood that.) Physiologically there is no difference. If I shot a deer in the heart and shot a human in the heart the reason for death is the same. We share lungs and brains and livers and other organs that function similarly. But senseless killing (murder) is exclusive only to elitist humans? I think you get the picture.

Someone who gets on an airplane and fly's all the way to Africa to go trophy hunting for big game is NOT hunting for food. They are hunting a trophy to brag about. Hunter of all types want the "big one". This is an example of 'unnatural selection' or 'human induced evolution'. There have been scientific studies that show the negative effects of unnatural selection. I'll post a link below if anyone cares to read it. Beware, it is written by scientists not hunters. (I can hear it now...prolly more of those dang liberals)

Again, I have no problem who hunt and harvest food with respect to nature. I despise those who 'kill for the thrill' and there are plenty out there.

For those that don't believe in evolution or science then don't bother reading we have nothing in common.


http://http://www.pnas.org/content/106/suppl.1/9987.full

[lordofwyr]

I will agree to disagree with the murder thing on animals. I am never for he killing of animals for only the reason of a trophy, but most of those people or organizations donate the meat to local villages that are happy to get it, and senseless killing is not limited to humans.

Anyone who has ever had a fox wipe out an entire chicken coop and not eat a single one or watched a dog kill a squirrel in their back yard for the thrill can attest to that. Hell, ants wage war on other colonies to take them for food or just run them off their "territory."

Please do not take the line that humans are the only evil creatures that do that. We just have opposable thumbs and the mental capacity to create weapons of war to make it easier and faster.

The thing about safari hunts is that most of them directly benefit the animals and local economies in the long run. The hunters pay enormous amounts to do that, and the money supports local businesses, wildlife preserves and ranches that WANT the business, and encourages them to keep those herds and animals viable. In America, hunters fees and license fees are the main reason we still have many of those game animals around. And remember, there was a reason we killed bears and lions and wolves. They eat humans as well as livestock.

And the senseless killing thing taken to its logical conclusion, if you drive a car at anything above about 10 miles per hour, you are murdering flies, butterflies, grasshoppers, birds and anything else that cannot scurry out of the way fast enough when you hit them. I mean, really, you have two legs and can walk. Why do you need to travel faster than that except for selfish reasons or the "thrill of the ride?"

Ok, go ahead, lambast away, but I will not take away another person's right to trophy hunt just because I dislike it, just as i don't want someone else to try to take away my rights just because they dislike my exercising of them.

[Thanis]

Thank you for the posts. They have helped to center me.

Just want to agree, that those who take their prey, and "enjoy" killing something, are kin in intent to murder, and are potential problems to be watched closely. The calling out of this flaw is something about hunting I like. I have a younger cousin who has always needed a closer eye, and in the process of hunting a dark side of his nature came out, and it was a good opportunity to address it before it went on to something else.

However, there is nothing wrong with being excited with the primal kill. It is a fine line. For the lack of better words, the kill is the climax / zenith of a good hunt, and there is nothing wrong with that enjoyment. It just is not for me. It really does come down to the fact that I'm not hungry. The food chain is hidden from the masses, my appetite is healthier than I am, and like many, I'm conditioned away from the reality.

One example is I just can't kill a mallard duck. My family once hunted ducks extensively. We have old wood decoys all over the place. However I'm part of the tree that rooted and branched into the suburbs, where the realities between man and beast are politely avoided, even at the grill behind every house. I can't kill a duck, because I spent my youth watching and feeding them and their ducklings in my back yard. My wife caught me talking to a pair last year, as I feed them bread, about two feet from me, making suggestions to them as to where they should nest, based on my landscaping plans. When they did nest where I suggested, my wife tought that was just insaine. It was not that the duck know what I'm saying, or that they took my advise. My voice was calm. Based on experience, I knew where they would go. It all goes back to when I was younger and my parents found a dead duck shot by a pellet gun. Then they found 4 eggs. They took them in, and 3 of the 4 eggs hatched. We raised the ducks, taught them to fly, and that was it. Ducks were pets, not food. Sure, my parents still hunted, but it had changed me. I have all the skills and knowledge to be a great duck hunter, pasted down knowledge, stories, and if I was hungry, there would be many dead ducks.

So to sum up, thanks for the posts, it has helped to center me. I think it might be a good idea to start thanking the animal, and more importantly, I need to be sincerely thankful.

[Sig35seven]

Thank you for the posts. They have helped to center me.

Just want to agree, that those who take their prey, and "enjoy" killing something, are kin in intent to murder, and are potential problems to be watched closely. The calling out of this flaw is something about hunting I like. I have a younger cousin who has always needed a closer eye, and in the process of hunting a dark side of his nature came out, and it was a good opportunity to address it before it went on to something else.

However, there is nothing wrong with being excited with the primal kill. It is a fine line. For the lack of better words, the kill is the climax / zenith of a good hunt, and there is nothing wrong with that enjoyment. It just is not for me. It really does come down to the fact that I'm not hungry. The food chain is hidden from the masses, my appetite is healthier than I am, and like many, I'm conditioned away from the reality.

One example is I just can't kill a mallard duck. My family once hunted ducks extensively. We have old wood decoys all over the place. However I'm part of the tree that rooted and branched into the suburbs, where the realities between man and beast are politely avoided, even at the grill behind every house. I can't kill a duck, because I spent my youth watching and feeding them and their ducklings in my back yard. My wife caught me talking to a pair last year, as I feed them bread, about two feet from me, making suggestions to them as to where they should nest, based on my landscaping plans. When they did nest where I suggested, my wife tought that was just insaine. It was not that the duck know what I'm saying, or that they took my advise. My voice was calm. Based on experience, I knew where they would go. It all goes back to when I was younger and my parents found a dead duck shot by a pellet gun. Then they found 4 eggs. They took them in, and 3 of the 4 eggs hatched. We raised the ducks, taught them to fly, and that was it. Ducks were pets, not food. Sure, my parents still hunted, but it had changed me. I have all the skills and knowledge to be a great duck hunter, pasted down knowledge, stories, and if I was hungry, there would be many dead ducks.

So to sum up, thanks for the posts, it has helped to center me. I think it might be a good idea to start thanking the animal, and more importantly, I need to be sincerely thankful.

Good post. Years ago my father and my brother and I belonged to 'Ducks Unlimited'. It is an organization devoted to duck hunting. As horrible as this may sound it's loads of fun blasting them out of the sky and watching them fall dead or wounded back to earth. Anyone who has duck hunted knows what I'm talking about. Like shooting little airplanes out of the sky. Hugely entertaining. I can't remember eating one duck ever. Not even at the once a year fund raising event. Steak or chicken was always served. We also would go to dove shoots in South Carolina. Shooting them out of the sky is difficult and requires good shooting skills and is loads of fun. The thought of gathering food was never even considered. I remember my cousins dumping the dove bodies in a dump area in the woods after we murdered them...ooppps...I mean hunted them. The point is these birds died solely for the purpose of entertainment of the human. Killing can be fun and exciting.

Growing up, my older brother, was allowed to shoot his 22 rifle around the yard. Early 60's in a rural setting. He would 'hunt' all day with that rifle. Reality was he went around killing anything that moved. Creature plinking. Mice, birds, squirrels, ground hogs, starlings, robins rabbits a few cats. Didn't matter. If it moved he'd kill it purely for fun. Killing was exciting for him. I came to meet many more killers just like him and food was NOT a consideration. These types are not sportsman or good hunters.

[oneshot]

I'm not sure that any real hunter has much, if any pleasure in watching an animal die. It is a sad thing to watch.

Its really not a natural act to kill anything and anyone that takes pleasure in watching something take its last breath is a warped human being. Those that feel nothing at the taking of a life, need to find something else to do.

^^^^^^^^To bold above^^^^^^^^


Yes it is a natural act, in the sense that for thousands of years, people have been doing it for sustenance; to take delight or to do so in a manner in which you do not have respect or reverence for the animal is a travesty.


[QUOTE=ntkb;2209110]I have taken many deer over the years, it seems that the longer I watch them before shooting, the more I get a sad feeling. But when you consider the death that awaits them by natural causes, like losing all your ability to chew because your teeth are worn out, so you slowly starve to death or get run down by a pack of coyotes, and eaten alive, a bullet to the neck and dropping like a sack of potato’s don’t seem all that bad.

What I do feel really bad about is tracking someone’s deer and not finding it.[/QUOTE]



^^^^All of this^^^^^^^^^^

but especially part in bold.

I would not call it joy. More like an accomplishment. For years my family has eaten mainly venison. There have been years we did not even buy ground beef or steak in the grocery store. It's nice to be able to provide that. In the end, the only difference is who kills what animal. I prefer knowing that the I am the person responsible for the meat my family is eating from the time it hits the ground until it's eaten. I process my own too.

If you choose to go out and enjoy the experience without harvesting anything, that's your business. Do what you enjoy about it.

^^^^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Modern society has lost sight of how things were done many years ago.
Now they go grocery shopping buy beef, pork, lamb, fish and more without thinking how it got there, how it was taken from farm to grocery store.
It is actually LESS stressful to the animal being taken in the wild, than having something taken to the commercial slaughterhouse.
I have taken cows, pigs, and chickens(chickens to a separate place), and the place I took them to was a very small place in a rural setting in Croswell Mi. They were very good, once the animal arrived they were allowed to settle down for a day, prior to being killed. The guys there knew the precise spot in the animals brain and it felt zero.

[barstoolguru]

Someone once told me he called it "stealing life" and as we get older we learn to appreciate it even more. I can only assume that this is why 18-21 yo make the best soldiers because they have not experienced enough of life to condone killing it

[BigJon10125]

I dont hunt and never have. I have had to put some animals down on my parents property and it is already a sad situation at that point, but much like hunting it is ethical and useful. The respect that you show is refreshing and in my opinion is the sign of a good person. As Eaglks those who are cruel to animals have some mental issues. My wife who works in the criminal field has stated that there are many studies showing that killers have historys of animal abuse in their past.

[oneshot]

Someone once told me he called it "stealing life" and as we get older we learn to appreciate it even more. I can only assume that this is why 18-21 yo make the best soldiers because they have not experienced enough of life to condone killing it

^^^^^^You are^^^^^^^^^^^

comparing apples to watermelons.

Killing a human being in a battle scenario, and hunting aren't in the same ballpark.

[barstoolguru]

^^^^^^You are^^^^^^^^^^^

comparing apples to watermelons.

Killing a human being in a battle scenario, and hunting aren't in the same ballpark.

Both fruit.......... just like a living being is a living being; I see no difference.
I know of no living being of any kind that wants to be dead. The only difference is we know we know what death is.

[Burns]

Both fruit.......... just like a living being is a living being; I see no difference.
I know of no living being of any kind that wants to be dead. The only difference is we know we know what death is.

The reason the army likes 18-20 year olds joining is because most of the time they think they won't die because they are young and therefore have less fear when going into battle.

children however, are known to feel more compassion towards shooting/killing animals than you do when you are older.

As he said, you are comparing 2 completely different things.

[nedrgr21]

Everyone who lives in a permanent home, uses roadways and any other permanent infrastructure, or supports any industry by purchasing anything is responsible for the death of animals due to loss of habitat. Unless you are just running around in the woods naked or covered with a fig leaf, you're a participant. Some are just more direct participants than others. Anyone who harps on hunters who isn't running around in the woods full time is just a hypocrite - including vegetarians/vegans. I don't see a problem with those that don't hunt, just don't try to push beliefs on others (and I'm not saying the OP is trying to do that). Everyone has a level of comfort in the process that is personal to them, but it's too bad so many live in denial about their part in the death of animals. Hunters, not protesters, are responsible for the abundant wildlife in the US today. All the hunters I know believe in humane kills and eating the harvested game. Whether the animal is consumed by the hunter or others is of no consequence - it's no different than the people in the slaughterhouses killing animals and others purchasing the meat.

[Burns]

Hunters are very important, without them our cities would be filled with deer, causing more car accidents and more damages, but if you choose to do so it would be best to see their meat put to good use and not just rot on the side of the road...

[barstoolguru]

Man destroys life (destroys everything). We as hunters (not really needing meat) go after the biggest and best of a species. Nature takes the weakest and allows the strong to survive and procreate

[Harryball]

Modern society has lost sight of how things were done many years ago.
Now they go grocery shopping buy beef, pork, lamb, fish and more without thinking how it got there, how it was taken from farm to grocery store.
It is actually LESS stressful to the animal being taken in the wild, than having something taken to the commercial slaughterhouse.
I have taken cows, pigs, and chickens(chickens to a separate place), and the place I took them to was a very small place in a rural setting in Croswell Mi. They were very good, once the animal arrived they were allowed to settle down for a day, prior to being killed. The guys there knew the precise spot in the animals brain and it felt zero.

IMO this is the best statement in the thread so far.

There is a thrill in the hunt. Its mans hunting and gathering side coming out. We are so far removed from this, that some believe the harvest is murder, for those I feel sorry. Those are the folks we should worry about. When you eat your chicken or steak, thank the people that have the stones to fill your shopping cart.....