Witnessed the effects of leading in a Glock yesterday

This is a discussion on Witnessed the effects of leading in a Glock yesterday within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Yesterday I was at an outdoor range enjoying some of the beautiful spring weather we are having. A gentleman came and was setting up to ...

Results 1 to 14 of 14
Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By buckeye .45
  • 1 Post By buckeye .45

Thread: Witnessed the effects of leading in a Glock yesterday

  1. #1
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,553

    Witnessed the effects of leading in a Glock yesterday

    Yesterday I was at an outdoor range enjoying some of the beautiful spring weather we are having. A gentleman came and was setting up to shoot next to me with a Gen 2 Glock 19, and I started talking to him.

    I noticed that his ammo came in unmarked, white cardboard boxes, with styrofoam trays like WWB, and asked what type of ammo he was shooting. He said it was some reloads he and his buddy had made. They had loaded the rounds with lead semi-wad cutters. I made a comment that Glock says not to shoot lead ammo through there guns, and he said that he had never heard of such a thing, and that he shoots these all the time through his 19. So, at this point I started to worry a bit, but, his firearms handling was safe, and he was shooting fairly well, so I just went back to enjoying my range time.

    I was reloading mags when I saw a rather odd sequence of events happen. The gentleman was shooting with his left hand (although he was right handed, he was practicing with his off hand as many of us do on occasion). When he fired a round, it didn't quite sound right, then there was more smoke than normal, no ejected round, and the magazine went flying out of his Glock. My initial reaction was "I guess he bumped the mag release with his left hand during recoil." but that didn't account for anything but the magazine. He pretty much immediately put the Glock down, and started looking at his hand.

    It was rather obvious what had happened by the time I walked over there. His hand had a lot of black residue on it, and a couple of minor cuts. I asked if he was okay, which he said he was fine, but was done shooting for the day. I told him we should probably take apart his 19, and make sure it was okay (we were the only two on the range.) When he cleared it a mangled 9mm casing came out with significant case head separation. The round had left the barrel, and there was no obvious damage to the barrel, no bulges or anything like that. There was however, significant leading on the inside of the barrel, that was very obvious. He said he cleaned it after every range trip, so I don't know if just 70-odd lead rounds caused that much leading, or if he was cleaning with a solvent that doesn't reduce lead fouling. But I would think any buildup would be apparent during prior cleanings. The magazine had some plastic shaved off around the ledge where it is held in by the magazine release. The gentleman proceeded to pack up his things, including the un-shot ammo, and left the range.

    So I learned a few things from this whole episode:

    1. Read the owners manual that comes with your firearms. If the manufacturer says not to use a certain type of ammo in the weapon, there is probably a reason for that. This also clarified for me what can happen specifically with Glocks and lead ammo.

    2. While I had paid attention to the ammo at first, I stopped worrying about it and went back to my own shooting when it looked like the guy knew what he was doing. We were set up about 15 feet apart. Had he had a worse over-pressure problem that did more than just blew out the magazine, that could have been bad for me. It should of been a bigger warning flag to me when he said he had never heard not to shoot lead in Glocks, and does it all the time. I had offered to give him a box of 9mm FMJ when I first noticed the lead bullets, but I guess he was just going to do things his own way. So, I should continue to pay attention to the voice in the back of my head that tells me when something is amiss.

    3. While at the range, pay attention to those around you, and be willing to share information with others. I thought that it was fairly common knowledge not to shoot lead in Glocks, but maybe this guy never had actually heard it before. I'm not the "I told you so" type, but while we were looking at the barrel and leading inside, I explained how the lead build-up creates a smaller diameter bore which leads to greater pressure, and I am pretty sure the lesson was learned. Thankfully, no one was seriously hurt, and the firearm wasn't destroyed. I did suggest he get a Lone Wolf barrel if he wants to continue shooting lead.

    4. While the "cup and saucer" technique seems to have gone away for the most part, I will still occasionally see it at a range, or in one of my classes. Someone saw it on TV one time and thought it looked like a good idea or something. I don't think things would have gone well for this fellow if he was using that hold, which would have been in the way of the magazine, which ejected rather forcefully. The pressure would of needed to find another way out.

    For all the Glock-lovers, this isn't a dig on Glocks. I was actually shooting my Glock 36 yesterday, since it will be getting more use with the nicer weather coming. But, I think this is something that Glock owners need to be made aware of.
    atctimmy likes this.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    KCMO
    Posts
    3,417
    Can't fix stoopid.

    Should've read the owner's manual and should've listened to you. Sometimes the sound of enlightenment is "thwack" as the 2x4 hits one upside the head - or boom in this case. At least you informed him of a safe way to shoot lead in his Glock - wonder if he'll listen.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,173
    There are several things IMHO that could have caused the case failure,Weakened case after numerous reloads,case had been fired several times in an unsupported chamber causing weakening at that point until it ruptured.And then again if barrel leading was the case it doesn't take much restriction in a barrel to push Pressures past the bursting point.
    I have had several 40 S&W case failures shooting lead reloads out of a Sig 229,and a friend has had case failures in a Sig 229 shooting jacketed reloads.My thought process was if the cases had been fired out of a glock with an unsupported chamber it may have weakened that area and it's possible the cases had been reloaded more than once to where the case was unable to withstand the pressure which wasn't excessive in new brass.I now reload all my 40 S&W at about 20% less powder than I was and haven't had any blown cases lately.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Bob from Southern New Hampshire
    Posts
    4,523
    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Can't fix stoopid.

    Should've read the owner's manual and should've listened to you. Sometimes the sound of enlightenment is "thwack" as the 2x4 hits one upside the head - or boom in this case. At least you informed him of a safe way to shoot lead in his Glock - wonder if he'll listen.
    +10 on the above. No matter what, some people are gonna do what they want, and that includes stupid behavior. I know, the most common excuse out of the guy's mouth was "must have been defective ammunition" and not a defective shooter.
    Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

  6. #5
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,553
    Quote Originally Posted by CLASS3NH View Post
    +10 on the above. No matter what, some people are gonna do what they want, and that includes stupid. I bet he's gonna say it was the ammunition that was defective, and not the shooter.
    He made the ammo, so that would be his fault too.

    I always read the owners manual cover to cover when I buy a new gun. Although more and more, I think that puts me in the minority of gun owners.
    mr.stuart likes this.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Bob from Southern New Hampshire
    Posts
    4,523
    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    He made the ammo, so that would be his fault too.

    I always read the owners manual cover to cover when I buy a new gun. Although more and more, I think that puts me in the minority of gun owners.
    I understand he made the ammo. With that said, I agree with you, that the shooter should have read the owners' manual.
    Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

  8. #7
    Moderator
    Array gasmitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    10,019
    I think you would have to shoot a very large quantity of lead bullets and have really apathetic gun maintenance in order for leading to be the root cause of the "kaboom" incident described - Glock's recommendations notwithstanding. This comment is based on my shooting partner running lead reloads through his Glock 35 for about two years (we shoot steel matches at least every other week) with nothing more than routine cleaning, and no ill effects over several thousand rounds. The G35 is a .40 S&W - same cartridge pressure specs as the 9mm.

    I think it's far more likely that the specific round that blew out was an overload, like a double charge - always a risk with handloads. A weakened case per dukalmighty's suggestion could easily be a contributing factor.

    Here's more insight on similar incidents with Glocks:
    9mm Glock Barrel Support
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

  9. #8
    Member Array romansten9's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    165
    Good comments. I'm glad nobody took the stance of: "lead is bad for your barrel" or "bad for your gun" Besides issues like this (in the Glock or other barrels with a unique rifling issues) lead isn't a big deal. Everyone should be cleaning their firearms, lead or no lead, and proper cleaning will get rid of lead. (not to mention properly lubing bullets helps a lot also.

    Not only is lead NOT bad for your barrel (if you clean it) but in most cases lead is BETTER for your barrel. Lead is soft, and you barrel will likely last longer by shooting lead. Not only that, but because lead is soft and forms a better seal in the barrel, you just may enjoy better accuracy as well. Another great benefit is the fact that my lead is free (no cost) which allows me to reload ammo for LESS THAN 5 cents/round. This means that I enjoy shooting way more for the same amount of money. I have ZERO issues with lead because I properly lube my bullets. The tiny ammount of lead that may (rarely) hang around is quickly cleaned out with solvents. I wash my hands after handling lead (esp before eating) and I always shoot outdoors, so I don't worry about breathing lead dust. Many have shot lead for umpteen years and have had no more lead in their blood stream than non-lead shooters, so the lead poisoning hype is almost entirely hype. Besides that, I've worked in healthcare for decades, and lead poisoning is very rare, and more likely from toddlers eating a bunch of lead paint chips. The lead scare is mostly anti-gunners hype and its sad to see that mis-info occasionally being spread by the pro gun crowd.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Georgia for now
    Posts
    4,413
    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    ....I always read the owners manual cover to cover when I buy a new gun. Although more and more, I think that puts me in the minority of gun owners.
    Welcome to the minority. When I worked for a manufacturer, we all decided someone was printing the inside of the box flaps with the instruction: Step 1) Remove Owner's Manual. Step 2) Discard Owner's Manual. Of course, that instruction has to be in at least 4 different languages.
    "If you make something idiot proof, someone will make a better idiot."

    - Anon

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    ct
    Posts
    1,891
    you can safely fire lead in a glock.

    ---i have, many thousands of rounds--

    BUT they were/are hard lead and slightly hot so that there is -0- leading

    a problem with leading is sometimes people look but do not register what they are seeing;
    the gullies of the polygonal may be filling up but the color of lead may be so similiar to the bbl
    that it goes unseen---but it is real and it is there--if you are shooting soft lead or at a velocity
    that causes streaking, usually at the forcing cone area where the bullet is under acceleration
    and expanding to fit it the full dia of the bbl

    i have have a formula and retest each time i reorder from our friend here to insure that
    the new lead is the same as the old.

    usual warnings and all that

    now, i will not fire any lead in my H&K p7 cause i do not wish to risk cloging the gas bbl hole
    nor do i wish to have to clean the gas cylinder cause of trying to save a few dollars.
    even the base of the bullet must be coated/jacketed.

    different gun, different conditions.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    MT
    Posts
    1,012
    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    Read the owners manual that comes with your firearms. If the manufacturer says not to use a certain type of ammo in the weapon, there is probably a reason for that.
    Almost every handgun manual I have ever read say's to not shoot reloaded ammunition in the gun.

    With that said, I would also suspect maybe a double charge, a squib the previous round, or any number of causes of mentioned above.
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,447
    What buckeye described is one of the reasons I stop going to public ranges, and only shoot in my back field.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,571
    If I were to use reloaded lead ammo in a Glock, it would be with a gas checked bullet, or change the barrel to one that had rifling safe for lead ammo.

    I saw the same thing once, except it was an old Colt DA revolver. The rounds were probably manafactured circa the Bonnie&Clyde area. I heard a report that didnt sound right, turned and looked and they were getting ready to squeeze another off. I stopped them just in time, as the barrel had a slight bulge, and the first round didnt exit the barrel.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  15. #14
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,553
    I don't think there was a squib. The round before sounded normal, the weird sounding one was the round that caused the malfunction. Also, there was no obvious damage to the barrel, no bulges or anything.

    A side note on squib loads the group I train with has a training aid, which is a Rossi 462 revolver (nickel plated 2" .357) someone brought to them, that has three rounds in the barrel. And the round that is barely peeking out the muzzle is flattened, indicating there was at least one round ahead of it. So it seems that one round was a squib, and then at least three more rounds were fired behind it. The amazing part is that the pistol held together through all of that. They did wind up needing to beat the cylinder out with a hammer to ensure that there were no live rounds left in the cylinder. But I am rather surprised that a Rossi revolver withstood that abuse without coming apart in the shooters hand.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

black residue on hands glock
,
cardboard ammo boxes with styrofoam trays
,
gas check lead bullets in glock
,
gas checked for glocks
,
gas checked glock
,

glock barrel leading

,
glock leading
,
how to tell leading glock
,
leading in a glock barrel
,
leading in glock barrel
,
were gen 2 glocks used in the sopranos
,
what is a gas check on a glock?
Click on a term to search for related topics.