This is a discussion on NYPD: 84 rounds, 14 hits within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm not trying to make excuses, but most indoor ranges I've ever been to only go to 50ft. I can't really see them being "trained" ...
I'm not trying to make excuses, but most indoor ranges I've ever been to only go to 50ft. I can't really see them being "trained" much beyond that. Also, most cops I've known don't practice all that much. I don't either (only due to funds) but, if a pistol was a tool of my trade, I'd make damned sure I was proficient with it.
I think I should be able to claim my guns as dependents on my taxes. I have to clothe them, feed them, clean them when they get dirty, keep them safe from bad people...
Years ago my department supplied 100 rounds month of 38 spl for practice,we shot semi-annual to qualify to carry S&W 686 4" 357,a lot of LEO's never showed up on range day for practice,I always did and not only shot the 100 they gave me,but usually shot another 1-200 of my own ammo,+ 1-200 rounds in my off duty S&W Mod 39,only about 50% showed up until it was time to qualify.
If a Civilian fired that many rounds in a Neighborhood with that many misses you may very well get charged with reckless endangerment
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
I don't know, but it seems like an awful waste of lead to me.. "Slow is fast" to coin a phrase a buddy of mine used to say...
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson
I was thinking, "they seem to be improving".
"Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)
- gives up
- dropping blood-pressure enough to cause unconsciousness
- CNS/"kill" shot
The officer in this following shoot-out was using .45s --->
Shots Fired: Skokie, Illinois 08/25/2008 - Article - POLICE Magazine
It's never quite that simple as just "what load was he using?"
The article mentions that Maddox was mortally wounded prior to the head-shots that finally put him down. Maddox didn't give up, and his blood-pressure just wasn't dropping enough from the other shots that had made its way through his body.
The NYPD uses 12lb triggers on for all of their firearms. On top of that, I saw an article that the range has 10.5 million rounds shot a year, and this is used by NYPD, Corrections, and other units. (ESU and trainees probably fire a lot more.) So if we just say there are 34,500 NYPD cops, then they shoot less than 300 rounds a year. Given the other units that train, its probably even less than that. With such little practice and a stiff trigger, I would be surprised if they could hit anything under pressure.
And who's to blame,The Dept!,I'll bet their Quals are static,and they are only required to test once a year.I have never fired on anyone that just stood there and took it like a man.
I've seen a lot of expert shots miss the largest deer that they have ever seen in their lives at close range when that monster deer was standing perfectly still. The only difference between shooting at that monster deer and making the same shot at the range was the excitement induced doubling of the shooters heart rate. Add to that the fact that neither the folks involved in a gunfight are normally stationary the accuracy will drop that much more. Even training on moving targets will not totally overcome this unless your training involves not only moving targets while your are also moving, but a target that is actually shooting back at you with real bullets.
This would account for the lack of hits on target. This leads me to believe that these facts should be a large part of an officers training. That they should be taught that most of their shots will not hit the target regardless of their training. Armed with that knowledge they can be better trained on when they might actually be more of a threat to innocents than the person they are trying to apprehend might be.
That is 26 each; somebody forgot to tell them that most "encounters" only 2-3 shots are fired.
[QUOTE=rickohio;2241913]He was hit 14 times and was still moving and holding his .22 when he went down, what caliber and brand of ammo are NYPD using?[/QUOTE]
This story clearly illustrates that caliber and bullet type are TRUMPED by shot placement.
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein
"People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."
I'll reserve judgement of these two cops until I personally face an armed assailant. The cops didn't know he only had a cheap .22 revolver, all they knew was that he fired at them and then would not go down or drop his weapon. Lastly, a 22% hit rate may seem poor, but when taking into consideration the fact that it was dark, the target was 25 yards away, moving erratically, and would not go down, I can see why the cops kept on firing and only hit 1 out of 5 shots.
"Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker