NYPD: 84 rounds, 14 hits - Page 5

NYPD: 84 rounds, 14 hits

This is a discussion on NYPD: 84 rounds, 14 hits within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Mudgen Yeah, it was a knee jerk post from something a friend sent. And I didn't even check the percentage in his ...

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Thread: NYPD: 84 rounds, 14 hits

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudgen View Post
    Yeah, it was a knee jerk post from something a friend sent. And I didn't even check the percentage in his message.

    At 70 ft, I'd rather have a rifle with 22LR hollowpoints than a Glock .40 or whatever they carry for sidearms on the NYPD. Wouldn't be my weapon of choice, but better than the handgun in that situation.
    Not many people have the choice of choosing just the right gun in the midst of a gunfight. Not like they have a golf baf full of guns..."Lets see... hmmmm give me the .22 that should keep me on the target" You fight with what you have.


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Just curious... How many rounds did it take to kill a V/C or NVA solder?

    How many rounds are expended on each insurgent in a firefight today?

  3. #63
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    OK so carbines are issued as standard equipment to some details, and assignments. M-4's to be exact. Unless you've been to NYC or Chicago, or some other big city it may be hard to understand the problem of issuing rifles to patrol. First off much patrol is done on foot by patrol posts. Mostly though there is the problems of overpenitration, and deflection. When the need arise there are shotguns, and M-4's in abundance. It's a very dense place with a whole lot of people... everywhere.
    I would bet that less than 10% of normal patrol in NYC is foot patrol, maybe you think a foot post in a box in front of a consulate is a patrol post. as for carbines or shot guns being available, in NYC the normal patrol cop has to call the ESU for arms of that kind.
    just like civilians need to wait for initial police response, the patrolmen need to wait for ESU to respond which could take up to 20 minutes. so saying that carbines and shotguns are in abundance is a specious statement

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    What's really sad is the stupid things people say who have never fired a shot in combat or SD try to armchair quarterback or critique this incident.

    It's enough to make ya wanna puke.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  5. #65
    Member Array 1984's Avatar
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    Odd responses.

    Police got there in time to neutralize a menace to society and apparently did so without any other innocent people getting hurt.

    I'd say they did a great job.

    If I live there I can tell you that I could care less how much ammo it took to get that guy off the street- it was some of the best tax dollars that city spent.

    Police aren't SEALS, and I'm neither.

    The SEALS may keep us all free in a national sense but they sure aren't going to help you when a madman is shooting up your apartment building; as for me, anytime said madman is 50 feet away shooting up said apartment complex, I'll accept the fact that I darn well will be held to a higher standard of shooting (or face reckless endangerment) as long as I am allowed to freely employ my Nike defense without so much as a fine or even an editorial about my uselessness to the community in the local rag.
    Posts are for entertainment only. I have no training, database, background, knowledge of law, skills, or conviction of belief that anything I post is safe or relevant for your situation and bear no responsibility for any actions or events related to your interpretation of any of my post(s).

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    I would bet that less than 10% of normal patrol in NYC is foot patrol, maybe you think a foot post in a box in front of a consulate is a patrol post. as for carbines or shot guns being available, in NYC the normal patrol cop has to call the ESU for arms of that kind.
    just like civilians need to wait for initial police response, the patrolmen need to wait for ESU to respond which could take up to 20 minutes. so saying that carbines and shotguns are in abundance is a specious statement

    Well then... First off every pct. has patrol posts on the second and third platoon. Most traffic posts are foot posts. Most housing bureau are foot posts, most transit bureau are foot posts (it's really hard to get those radio cars up unto project buldings, and down into the subway trains). While most of daily patrol is dedicated to radio motor patrol, there is no shortage of foot posts.

    There are dedicated units on patrol armed with both shotguns, and carbines. Usually boro TF cars. As far as Emergency Services units(ESU)... they are broken down to sectors, and trucks. I dont think there's a place in NY that isnt a 10 minute response time from an ESS unit. And yes they do carry shotgun's and carbines. And a bunch of other neat stuff. Police response time is not an issue in NYC. Assistance response time is not an issue.

    As far as I know... Shootings happen very very fast. The officers focus is usually on survival. I doubt the shooting in question was any different.

    Handguns have served the NYPD just fine for many years. These are police officers... not solders. There is no offensive function within the police. There may be times when a rifle or shotgun is appropriate. But in a dense urban patrol that need is rare.

  7. #67
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Well then... First off every pct. has patrol posts on the second and third platoon. Most traffic posts are foot posts. Most housing bureau are foot posts, most transit bureau are foot posts (it's really hard to get those radio cars up unto project buldings, and down into the subway trains). While most of daily patrol is dedicated to radio motor patrol, there is no shortage of foot posts.

    There are dedicated units on patrol armed with both shotguns, and carbines. Usually boro TF cars. As far as Emergency Services units(ESU)... they are broken down to sectors, and trucks. I dont think there's a place in NY that isnt a 10 minute response time from an ESS unit. And yes they do carry shotgun's and carbines. And a bunch of other neat stuff. Police response time is not an issue in NYC. Assistance response time is not an issue.

    As far as I know... Shootings happen very very fast. The officers focus is usually on survival. I doubt the shooting in question was any different.

    Handguns have served the NYPD just fine for many years. These are police officers... not solders. There is no offensive function within the police. There may be times when a rifle or shotgun is appropriate. But in a dense urban patrol that need is rare.
    in some regards you are correct, I am old school and my comment didn't take into account the merging into NYPD the transit cops and the housing cops. so when you include those divisions there are many more foot posts than I allowed for.
    AFAIK currently there is 1 hercules unit that is on duty 1 tour per day, that is the only unit that actually patrols with carbines, other wise you're waiting for ESU to show up.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudgen View Post
    These two reloaded twice, and managed only a 22% hit rate. They might need a little more range time.

    Cops fire 84 bullets at armed man, hit him 14 times - NYPOST.com
    Let this be an example to those who criticize us everyday guys who carry lots of extra mags.
    Secret Spuk likes this.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Just curious... How many rounds did it take to kill a V/C or NVA solder?

    How many rounds are expended on each insurgent in a firefight today?
    Again, valid reasons for carrying lots of ammo.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  10. #70
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Just curious... How many rounds did it take to kill a V/C or NVA solder?

    How many rounds are expended on each insurgent in a firefight today?
    We are intensely less forgiving of collateral damage on our own streets compared to elsewhere. Intensely.
    spend more fighting Ebola than on Thanksgiving dinner. Be grateful it's being fought there, so we don't have to fight it here.

    As well, there are millions in potential patents possible for those with a tool shed, ideas, or creative loved ones to tell.. (and gumption) It's an untapped technology.


  11. #71
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    in some regards you are correct, I am old school and my comment didn't take into account the merging into NYPD the transit cops and the housing cops. so when you include those divisions there are many more foot posts than I allowed for.
    AFAIK currently there is 1 hercules unit that is on duty 1 tour per day, that is the only unit that actually patrols with carbines, other wise you're waiting for ESU to show up.
    I'm probably as old school as you. The hercules units are dedicated anti terorist units.The details of Their deployment isnt for public consumption.

    So who carries heavier weapons?

    Boro Task forces have carbines, M-4's.
    Every detective squad has at least one shotgun.
    RIP (robbery identification program) teams can carry shotguns.
    Highway solo cars can carry shotguns.
    TNT teams may be armed with shotguns.
    Some anti-crime units may have access to shotguns.
    And of course the ESS, and ESU teams have heavier weaponry.

    Like I mentioned before In a place as dense and populated as NY the option of a heavier weapon may not be the better option.

    With the fast response time of a ESS I dont believe there is a need to carry heavier guns on routine patrol. Like I said... these things tend to happen very fast. And unless the average officer takes the gun out of the car on every call... Handguns work just fine in the hands of an officer who's capable of effectively using one.

  12. #72
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    I'm not looking to beat this dead horse but other than esu, all the other squads might have a shotty or a carbine available for a certain job (highway I don't know, haven't talked to one of them in more than 20 years) but on a tour by tour basis the heavy stuff isn't on the streets

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Let this be an example to those who criticize us everyday guys who carry lots of extra mags.
    Once again, everyday guys have a retreat option, which is the smart one.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Once again, everyday guys have a retreat option, which is the smart one.
    Unless they don't, in which case it is good to have more ammo.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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    9mm.........Fact or Fiction ?

    Two NYPD LEO's fire 84 rounds at BG...................whoa.

    BG has a .22 revolver and fires at the officers, he had just committed a homicide and an attempted homicide. The two cops return fire, 84 shots fired! Hit the guy 14 times....... He lives.


    How the officers both armed with Glock 19 did their thing:

    The police officer fired 45 shots — one round in his gun’s chamber, two 15-round magazines and all but one round in his third magazine. He told investigators he thought he was out of ammo. The sergeant also fired one shot he kept in the chamber, two 15-shot magazines and eight rounds from his third magazine.

    Why I don't carry a 9mm.................I dunno.

    Failure of the round or just bad marksmanship........?
    Last edited by xXxplosive; May 3rd, 2012 at 11:32 AM.

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