Tale of two Mothers (and others)

This is a discussion on Tale of two Mothers (and others) within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; When you think of those who you would like to see carry, do you also think of those who you don't think should carry? This ...

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Thread: Tale of two Mothers (and others)

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    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Tale of two Mothers (and others)

    When you think of those who you would like to see carry, do you also think of those who you don't think should carry?

    This is my tale of two mothers. One fire and the other ice.

    My mother was a strong, out going woman. Full of self opinion and at times anger. If someone "flipped" her off...she would follow and "chew them up". When Dad died she started carrying his derringer in her purse. No matter what we tried to tell her about a better defensive gun and training and rules of when to use it. She was a hard head (did I mention you could bounce rocks off her head and she wouldn't notice?) and just "poo pooed" us off.

    I constantly worried about what "trouble" she could get into either with or without the derringer. She died last year and as luck would have it....she didn't get beaten, shot, stabbed and I doubt if anyone cussed her out for long. I would not have encouraged this brassy, outspoken "I don't take crap from no body" woman to carry a weapon. Too much of a loose cannon. (Now don't get me wrong...she was a good and sweet woman....most the time, but do what she considered a "slight" to her...Katy Bar The Door.) One mother.

    Now we come to my Mother In Law. Quite, timid and not one who wants to go anywhere . (She does have a passive/aggressive side that shows occasionally, but usually only to hubby.) She can be a perfect Travel Agent for a Guilt Trip. She is still with us.
    A few years ago she was thinking about getting a weapon because of all the crime around her she reads (and reads and reads) about. We thought about it and I for one tried to discourage it. Now I will tell you why.

    She is the "stereo type" who would be sitting up in bed with the gun in her hand and NOT SHOOT the BG. They wouldn't have to take it from her....she would end up giving it to them and begging for them not to hurt her. I really believe that no matter how much conditioning and training we tried with her....she would still not shoot a BG. Too much of a shrinking violet. The other mother.

    I am a woman who has been around weapons all my life. My husband has directed me to the right things to read and it is a regular part of our discussions....tactics....intent....cause....out come.... what to do if things go wrong...what to do IF it happens. Because of my career I am hyper aware of things around me. I have the ability of quick assessment of a situation. Two qualities that kept me alive during my time in a dangerous Metro ghetto.

    I put lot of thought into where I go and how I carry for quick access. I know to let a "flip off" pass and don't even send the one finger salute back. I don't leave safety if I have any hint of a threat....either car or store or home.

    There ARE people who can't handle this responsibility...both men and women...young and old. My advice is not to encourage someone to carry if you don't know how they might react. IMO My daughter knows how to shoot and we take her target shooting on occasion, but I don't encourage her to get one, because on her days off she likes to drink...to excess (occasionally) and then has a quick temper (takes after her grandma on the temper). She needs a few more years of learning control of both drinking and temper.

    This is my take. What is yours.
    jbum, 4my sons, Brass63 and 5 others like this.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    I never try to get someone to carry a gun that has not expressed interest in learning to handle and carry a firearm concealed. If someone asks for my help to acquire their license or have me teach them how to shoot, I gladly offer them a friendly hand. Otherwise, I say nothing. Not my job.

    I came to the conclusion after working in a gun store years ago, that while its everyones Constitutional Right to own a firearms, about 50% all the guns I sold were to people that actually SHOULD have a firearm. Had a customer that bought a gun from me....did the three day Brady wait, came back to the store, did the background check.....and he proceeded to take the gun out of the store out into the parking lot and put a bullet in his brain. I had a hard time selling anyone a gun after that one.
    There are a lot of people walking around every day with a gun on their hip that have neither the willingness to train with a gun to become proficient, or will never have the mindset to use that gun in self defense. And I still have not met too many 21 year olds that can handle the huge responsibility that comes with firearms ownership, much less concealed carry around others. Of course there are exceptions to my generalizations, and I apologize if I sound down on the maturity of the younger folk. You can't put the bullet back in the gun and hit "replay".
    The other side of the coin is the "loose cannons" that are just chomping at the bit to "get their gun off", and these guys and gals scare the crap out of me. You know the type I'm talking about. We all do. Chances are these type have already acquired their firearms and have their CCW. Hopefully they mellow before something bad happens.
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    Spirit, I think you have the proper approach. You're giving logical and reasonable thought to the topic, which by itself puts you ahead of half of humanity. Adding your sense of responsibility filters you down further to the top 20%, or less. You're aware, and you think things out. Keep it up.
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    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Right on Spirit!
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    Spirit. Touting common sense, responsibility, training, mindset, situational awareness and most of all .....GASP.... suggesting to and that
    others do not demonstrate the proper attitude or responsibility to carry or own a gun!!!!!!! My God you must be the head of the neighborhood anti gun, anti carry, league of anti's.

    I have only one response...You go girl. Makes perfect sense to me. Some people do not need to being carrying a spork much less a firearm but such is life.
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    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    A link from another post lead me to this thread.

    I can't help but disagree with some of the opinions, here, so I'm going to toss out my take on the situation. I see the reasoning and the logic behind what you are saying. You know your mother and mother in law very well (I’m sorry to hear she is no longer with you). You think you know how they would respond in a critical situation. You think you know how they would respond to a threat. You think one of them might fly off the handle over something trivial and shoot someone. You think the other would end up getting shot in a confrontation. Could you be right about them? It's possible. Unfortunately, everything you have discussed in regards to these hypothetical situations is based on assumptions. When thrown into a life or death situation, people may surprise you with their actions. In regards to your daughter, I can see how you are protective of her. You assume, she too, may fly off the handle, do something irresponsible, or possibly get into some legal trouble for various reasons. In that regard, I’m not going to tell you how to be a parent, that’s for sure. Also, I agree with you, that it’s not necessarily in my place (or other people) to encourage others to carry firearms. I have absolutely no problems trying to educate people on the subject, though. I feel that some of your fears come from a lack of people’s education on the matter – rather than their temperament. For instance… If you are against encouraging someone to get/carry a gun, and later that person is mugged, stabbed, and killed; all the while, it possibly could have been prevented if you had educated them properly (all hypothetical, of course). You would probably feel like you could have done something differently. If you try to educate, and they are stubborn, there isn't really anything you can do about it - and that I totally understand.

    Expanding on the subject of mental capacity and firearms… do you think people should be given psychological evaluations before they should be allowed a carry permit? Would you go so far as to say that people should be required of this evaluation to exercise their second amendment rights? In my state, if you are clinically, psychologically impaired, you cannot get your permit. Makes sense. But when we talk about this subject, it can slide down a slippery slope. Where does it end? Who should be qualified to carry a firearm? Those who pass a psych exam? What would qualify as passing? Who is doing the evaluating? Should those with military and police training be allowed to carry, only?

    In the end, it’s a tough call when we are talking about personal defense. I feel that everyone should be given the right to defend themselves and loved ones if they are not a criminal/felon or haven’t done something against the law that would revoke their ability to carry. I think the best thing to do is educate people as best we can on the subject. From there, it is up to the individual to act responsibly and within the law.

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    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    I would have to agree with Spirit on this one. Not everyone should carry. It's a personal decision every person has to make for themselves. That decision effects us all. Every negative incident reflects on us all.
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    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
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    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Lotus222,

    I don't want any government "shrinks" passing judgement on anyone's 2nd Amendment Rights. I am not pushing for any official control of gun ownership. This was on a personal level...the people you know very well. The comparison of two women...one who could be too aggressive and the other too passive to handle the responsibility of self defense with a weapon. We on occasion have tried to introduce both to realistic gun ownership and use in self defense. My mother knew guns and had been a sport and hunting woman all her life. She knew those guns, but had no idea about the rather dangerous weapon she carried at the bottom of her purse. She also had no idea when it would be legal to use it.
    My mother in law just doesn't have the temperament. We have tried with her too, but when you try to explain in simple terms about self defense and you can see the eyes glaze over...you just know you can't get through to them.

    I never did anything to stop either of them. There was no way to stop my mother short of physically stopping her and THAT was not going to happen. I just prayed and kept my fingers crossed. My mother in law just wasn't that interested to continue the thought of self defense...but I would never had tried to stop her. She stopped when it was pointed out that she may have to shoot someone and kill them to save herself.

    You make some very interesting points, but this is just a subject that the hubby and I have discussed many times and agree on. I just wondered if anyone else had these thoughts. Thanks for the response.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    This is my take. What is yours.
    It seems like wisdom and good common sense coming at us from the OP.
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    This is one of those "third rail" subjects on a gun board. You've addressed it quite tactfully, Spirit.

    I tried a thread like this once, but not so eloquently and got shouted down as an 'anti'.
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    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    I just want to clarify that I totally understand your thoughts on the situation. I didn't really think you were suggesting psych evals. I just wanted to express a few opinions - not to pass judgement of the validity of your personal views. I know we have all had those thoughts and opinions, at some time about someone who carries. Some of my best friends who are daily carriers seem to know very little about the law vs opinion, sometimes. It could get them into trouble, for sure, but at least they have the ability to protect themselves. I have seen stubbornness beyond my comprehension. One day at the pool we were talking guns. Apparently, all of my friends (including those who own no guns and know nothing about current laws) just knew for a fact that GA had a firearm registry and that there was also a national registry database. No matter what I told them, and even pulled up on my smartphone - they wouldn't believe that those things didn't exist. I even tried to point out the dangers of such a registry system. IE: what Hitler did when Austria elected him to govern and he registered all of their arms - then took them away for their own "safety". Their views still wouldn't budge. Stubbornness to the extreme.

    In my post, I guess I wanted to touch on the difference between personal opinion and opinion about actual law.

    Edit: Forgot to write about my main point, lol.

    It's similar to looking at senior citizens drivers licenses. When are they incapable of driving? When do we/should we test them again? It's a touchy subject.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Spirit, To be honest, I could not add anything to what you have already said. Your common sense approach is spot on. Keep up the good fight....
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    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    I agree with the OP. My girlfriend is a great example.

    A while back, I really pushed her to get a CPL. I also bought her a carry gun (LCR .38), which she carried it for a while, then quit. I did not, nor will I, push her to resume carrying and I believe it would be wrong to do so. I wanted her to have the permit, and access to the firearm should she choose to carry, but compelling her to do so would just sour her on the issue. I also believe that carrying a firearm is a very serious decision, and if you aren't 100% sure that you could use it then it's more danger to have the thing than not.

    OTOH, I disagree with her reasons for not carrying it right now. Her primary motivation is because she believes that someone bigger than her would take it and use it against her, but I think that's a line she picked up from her mother. She'll get past it at some point, and resume. She's also not a fan of the LCR, so getting her out to shoot my Kahr 9mm might change her tune there as well.
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    Senior Member Array txron's Avatar
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    My wife does not understand why I carry. She wants nothing to do with guns and has mentioned numerous times that she does not like them, want to see them or even that I carry (IWB, no priniting). We have gotten into "discussions" about me carrying and how she does not like it. We have settle to "agree to disagree".

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    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txron View Post
    My wife does not understand why I carry. She wants nothing to do with guns and has mentioned numerous times that she does not like them, want to see them or even that I carry (IWB, no priniting). We have gotten into "discussions" about me carrying and how she does not like it. We have settle to "agree to disagree".
    Careful, 'agree to disagree' generally means this is going to blow up for you later. She needs to at least genuinely accept that you carry and why, even if she doesn't like it.

    How long have you been 'agreeing to disagree' on this? Are you a new carrier, or a new husband?
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

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