DPMS Oracle?

This is a discussion on DPMS Oracle? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by TinkMan308 I am just a simple AF guy trying to figure out how to measure these comments so I have an idea ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkMan308 View Post
    I am just a simple AF guy trying to figure out how to measure these comments so I have an idea of what should be expected out of a MilSpec rifle. Are these comments for the top 10% or the common foot soldier? With that aside, I guess what I am gleaning from your post is there is a difference between quality and reliability. The rifles we use in the military are quality rifles because they meet MilSpec but are poorly maintained.
    On another note; comments like "a bunch of kids that know nothing about firearms" and "Using military as an example for weapons reliability is like using a police officer as an example of firearms proficiency. :D" Dont add to the quality of the post and only degrade those that stand at the front lines defending our country. Those kids and that training make up the most powerful military in the world and ensure your rights as an American citizen.
    That's right Tink. Those "kids" do make up the best military in the world. The reality, however, is that not all of those kids are properly trained on the AR platform. Nor do they need to be.

    Since you are in the Air Force I'll guess that most of the "kids" on your base are trained in avionics or other similar aviation related fields. To call a "kid" who shoots at the range for qualification once a year an expert is foolish. I spent 5 years on active duty and I never shot an AR. Never, not once. So I'd say that "a bunch of kids that know nothing about firearms" can be a pretty accurate statement depending on the MOS.

    As to the second quote: "Using military as an example for weapons reliability is like using a police officer as an example of firearms proficiency." is just like the above. Many police officers train hard and are very proficient shooters. Many are not and the only time they fire their weapon is at mandatory qualification renewals. From what I understand this can be once every six months up to once every three years.

    The point in all of this was to remind you that we need to understand the skill level of the party at hand, not just make generalizations.

    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far more effective, in every practical sense, than the other way around." - Jeff Cooper, Col. USMC

    Also, Jon is a veteran as well.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Also, Jon is a veteran as well.
    Sadly, I am not and it is my biggest regret in life. I have the utmost respect for all of our soldiers regardless of their role and most (but not all) of my friends are current or former military or LE. I do work with law enforcement and mainly teach carbine and tactics. I also work in close/VIP protection as well as security consulting.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    The average police officer (as well as soldier) is not a gun guy and really only knows what he is taught. The AR is a very reliable weapon, but you have to know how to take care of it. This white glove clean way of thinking is nonsense. I'll take a filthy AR dripping with lube over a pristine rifle that is bone dry any day in any environment.

    Hand me a Colt that is having consistent failures and I'll likely hand it back failure free. I'm not claiming I'm an expert, I just know what causes 95% of the issues and how to fix them in short order. I see this all the time. An officer has a quality rifle that is "jamming" regularly. I take a look at it and it's bone dry and he's using mags that should have been retired 5 years ago. Magazines account for a high percentage of failures. Lack of lube does as well. Very rarely is there a problem that requires tools for a fix. If you have a Colt that is having consistent failures and everyone is using m855, it's very likely lube or mags, regardless of how hot, cold, dusty, dry or wet the environment is.

    If it was up to me, I'd teach everyone to remove the bolt carrier group and wipe it down with a rag then wipe down the inside of the upper receiver, not even looking at the barrel. Maybe, on occasion, wipe the barrel extension as well. Then, I'd cover the bolt and bolt carrier in Slip EWL, not CLP. I'd have the check the mags regularly. When they show serious wear, throw them out and replace them. Don't bother bending the feed lips back unless you're in the field, and then move it to the far side of your PC. I wouldn't complain about everyone doing more thorough cleanings, I just know that lube is more important than cleanliness.

    Then, I'd replace the action spring and bolt on a regular schedule. I don't think PMAGs are necessary, but I do think properly maintained magazines are as well as having the most current follower design. Once the spring starts to go, rebuild them or trash them.

    There's no excuse for not maintaining, though that's hard to know if you were never taught the correct way, or were never taught the WHY part of it. No matter how much kit you have on, a 1 ounce bottle of SLIP will fit somewhere.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  5. #49
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    Jon, while you're on the topic, check out the link of what I ended up going with on page 2 if you got time. Wondering if it gets your approval, I know it's no colt, but I think it's a far better decision than the dpms/doublestar I was thinking about.
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    12eSwwww[we;_QQaq-qaq-q-

    I don't know what the heck this is above, my son must have typed when I answered the phone BUT< I have no lcue how he submitted it, unless "Enter" does it. Sorry about that!
    Seems like he's just throwing in his .02 cents on how he feels about AR 15's in code only Spec-Op toddlers can decipher
    atctimmy and Rock and Glock like this.
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  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Sadly, I am not and it is my biggest regret in life. I have the utmost respect for all of our soldiers regardless of their role and most (but not all) of my friends are current or former military or LE. I do work with law enforcement and mainly teach carbine and tactics. I also work in close/VIP protection as well as security consulting.
    My bad. For some reason I thought you were.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    No problem man...
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  9. #53
    Member Array IsaiahM33's Avatar
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    I have a DPMS AR-15 MOD lower receiver that hasn't given me any problems. I built my AR myself with various other parts and it did save quite a bit of money. Having said that, I plan on getting a Colt or HK as soon as I can. I trust Colt as that is what I've used on 4 deployments (Afghanistan 2002, Iraq 2005, 2007, 2009). The HK because I know a few guys that I trust with my life (and have) that use it. DPMS is a fine rifle depending on it's intended use but you can't put a price on high quality and the utmost reliability.

    P.S.
    I know there are many stories about how Colt M4's have failed in combat. It's never failed me.
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  10. #54
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    I am not as experienced as many of the guys in this forum on guns but the piece of advice I can offer from experience is that any gun can fail at any time for any number of reasons. The most important decision anybody can make is to know their weapon inside and out and understand it. Know how to make field corrections and learn why you are having whatever issue it is you may be having. Your best bet is to know how to move from your rifle to your sidearm incase there is some sort of break down. Practicing and anticipating failures in the field and how to most effectively move forward from them should be a high priority. That being said, my wife bought me a DPMS Oracle as a wedding gift last year. I have modified it a bit but most importantly, I take great care of it. I keep it clean and oiled and try not to shoot trash ammo thru it. My team provides us with Federal .223 brass ammo so that is basically the only thing I shoot. I have never had any type of isse with it up to this point. Down the road may be another story but for the last year my rifle has been able to do everything any other guys rifle was able to do and often better.

    Moral of the story, any gun can fail no matter the brand. True some guns are less likely to have issues but the more you know about how to correct those issues as they arise and the more comfortable you are with transitioning to your backup weapon, the better shooter you will be.
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  11. #55
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    Doubt you know them but my brother in law is an MP at Fort Bliss and I've got a cousin who is a BP Agent based out of El Paso. Love the mountains out there. A lot of open space to shoot.
    IsaiahM33 likes this.

  12. #56
    Member Array redbeardsong's Avatar
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    My two cents on the matter: I'm not .mil or LEO, or even an accomplished shooter. However I work for a large dealer, and get to handle and compare all manner of brands from DPMS to Bushmaster to S&W, Colt, LMT, Daniel Defense, BCM and more. I've sold DPMS, and see a lot of people buy them because of the price point. The problem is, they then have to spend more money to make it functional for their use, and for the same money, they could have had a better rifle.

    Aside from the materials/quality of the parts ,


    1. The DPMS Oracle comes with no sights. So you're going to have to spend $80-100 on the cheapest sights you can find, or spend more on a scope and mount. The front gas block is railed, but it's not the same height as the upper, so a Magpul MBUS won't work, and it might melt on the hot gas block anyway. So you'll need a more expensive sight, an adapter, or both.

    2. The gas block also gives no place to attach a front sling attachment, so you'll need to either add a handguard sling stud adapter, add a quad rail, or use a single-point sling setup, which will also require purchasing a sling plate or adapter.

    3. Want to add a bipod, light or vert grip? Same situation as above. You're going to end up needing multiple adapters and/or a Magpul handguard, or a quad rail, which is going to be another $100+.

    3. The DPMS stock is flimsy, affecting cheek weld (for that scope you put on it. No sights, remember?) so many owners replace it (more $). It has a commercial spec receiver extension, so your stock choices are somewhat limited.


    OP, the PSA rifle you bought is a much better choice than the DPMS.

  13. #57
    New Member Array all_twisted's Avatar
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    Wow. Google led me here and after reading this thread from start to finish I decided yto join. I just purchased a DMPS Oracle from Cabelas. My .02 cents behind it was the price. I have a few other guns that just sit there so for a weekend shooter I didnt need anything way to fancy. I plan on adding my own twist to it and throw some MOE gear on it and get a EOtech holographic sight. I work with alot of military guys and a few gun guys that kept trying to get me to spend 1500 on the latest and greatest ar's but decided against it. But whatever may go wrong with it, it seems like there are a few guys on here that can point me in the right direction.

  14. #58
    Member Array IsaiahM33's Avatar
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    Well....looks like I'll be sticking with my DPMS for awhile. AR's are getting hard to find!
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  15. #59
    Member Array 02R1's Avatar
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    had one and fired a ton of rounds through it and not a single FTF or FTE.. might buy one again. Regretted selling mine.. :(

  16. #60
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    I have a DPMS that i got for 708 out the door. It has worked great for me, i bought it for the price as well. I did read on here and i stacked my gas key and checked the other key points that were stated, also i wanted optics anyway so no sights were a plus for me( i hate the front post on most AR's). I also found an aluminum quad rail for 40 and added my light, sling mount and fore grip. All told i am in the rifle for less than a 100 with the ammo and mags( i already had my scope). For a a weekend gun it is great. That being said i would like to get a colt when the madness dies down.

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