What is reasonable gun control... - Page 4

What is reasonable gun control...

This is a discussion on What is reasonable gun control... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Only gun control I support are instant checks and nothing more....

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  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Only gun control I support are instant checks and nothing more.
    Crowman and baren like this.


  2. #47
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    How about we just make it illegal to use a gun to commit a crime?

    That should fix all gun related crime right there.
    mprp, ArmyMan, Crowman and 3 others like this.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  3. #48
    Member Array Dutch1951's Avatar
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    Do I have to pay FEES to use my 1st amendment rights?

  4. #49
    Senior Member Array RKflorida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldrwizr View Post
    Absolutely not. In fact, why aren't we going to mental institutions, giving every crazy there a loaded AR-15 and a bucket of ammo, and turning them loose? The 2A guarantees everyone the right to go armed to the terror of the people, not just law-abiding mentally healthy people! So c'mon, let's get the message out to the limp-wristed pantywaist liberals that we refuse to keep guns from psychopaths! It's UNAMERICAN!
    Give them a loaded weapon?? Turning them loose??? How about they earn the money to purchase the weapon, and the ammunition. That would eliminate about 95% of them. By the way if they are in a mental institution, I doubt the snack cart has handguns for sale. You see, they would have to be released to purchase one. You do understand that means they have to have money and the personal freedom to go shopping? And if they had a means to get money and the personal freedom to walk into a store, then they are no longer crazies or they would still be institutionalized. Your hyperbole makes you sound like one of the liberals you mention.

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch1951 View Post
    Do I have to pay FEES to use my 1st amendment rights?
    Even if charged/checked/licensed to death, people would still speak. And therein lies the problem with attempting to regulate the upstanding and lawful.

    Now, if all of the attempts to regulate targeted the criminals weren't at the expense of citizens, then we'd be getting somewhere.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; July 26th, 2012 at 04:32 PM. Reason: spelling
    mprp, Crowman and revldm like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  6. #51
    Distinguished Member Array GunGeezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisataka View Post
    I posted this on a political forum where I hang out. It is definitely more anti than pro. It of course stems from the CO shooting. I would be interested in what a very pro-group thinks


    It will be assumed prohibited persons will be similar as is today

    The NFA of 1934 and GCA of 1968 will be repealed. In their place will be the following restrictions:

    1) The following may be purchased with an instant background check. No record of sale shall be required
    A. Revolvers holding no more than 6 rounds
    B. Non-semiautomatic rifles with a fixed magazine
    C. Non semiautomatic shotguns with fixed magazines of no more than 8 rounds
    D. Semiautomatic rifles with fixed magazine holding no more than 5 rounds
    E. Semiautomatic shotguns with fixed magazines holding no more than 5 rounds
    F. Any pistol or rifle of caliber .22LR or less, regardless of capacity
    G. A onetime fee of $20 shall be charged at the time of purchase to be used as in 9) below

    2) The following may be purchased with an instant background check and permanent file with local law enforcement to be updated at any transfer of the gun
    A. Semiautomatic pistols
    B. Semiautomatic rifles with fixed magazines of greater than 5 round capacity
    C. Semiautomatic rifles with removable magazines
    D. Magazine capacity will be capped at 30 rounds.
    E. Owners of previously made magazines may turn them in, receiving a number of 30 round magazines equivalent to the capacity of the surrendered magazine, round up to the nearest number.
    F. Non semiautomatic and semiautomatic shotguns of capacities greater than listed above
    G. Shotguns with removable magazines
    H. A onetime fee of $50 shall be charged at the time of purchase to be used as in 9) below

    3) The following may be purchased with a 30 day background check and permanent file with ATF to be updated at any transfer of the gun through local law enforcement. Renewal of registration shall be made every 5 years through local law enforcement
    A. Pistols capable of full automatic fire
    B. Rifles capable of any burst or full auto firing
    C. Rifles that are converted for bump firing
    D. Pistols capable of generating muzzle energy greater than 200ft/lbs
    E. Rifles or other long arm capable of generating muzzle energy of greater than 5000 ft/lbs
    F. A fee of $50 shall be charged at the time registration, renewal or transfer, to be used as in 9) below

    4) Open carry of firearms shall be permitted with government issued ID and completion of 16 hour course of training on justifiable use of force and shooting skill. Law enforcement may inspect ID with reasonable suspicion of unlawful activity or during a traffic stop. Openly carrying a gun is not grounds for suspicion of unlawful activity.

    5) Concealed carry of a firearm shall be permitted with government issued ID, concealed carry permit and completion of 16 hour course of training on justifiable use of force and shooting skill. Training must be renewed every ten years. Law enforcement may inspect ID with reasonable suspicion of unlawful activity or during a traffic stop. A onetime fee of $100 shall be charged at the initial permit application to be used as in 9) below

    6) Ammunition

    7) Ammunition purchased in person will require a government issued ID and instant approval check
    A. Ammunition purchased online must include purchasers government issued ID number to instant approval check
    B. Online purchases of greater than 1000 rounds will be delivered to customer designated law enforcement where they shall be picked up in person upon confirmation of ID
    C. A fee of $.01 shall be charge on each cartridge at purchase to be used as in 9) below

    8) Opt-out
    A. Businesses who do not choose to opt-out of allowing open or concealed carry shall be immune to civil liability suits
    B. Businesses open to the public who choose to opt-out of allowing legal carry of firearms are assuming responsibility for their patrons and are liable to civil suits from any injury resulting from legal or illegal gun use
    C. Businesses not open to the public who choose to opt-out of allowing legal carry of firearms are assuming responsibility for their employees and are liable to civil suits from any injury resulting from legal or illegal gun use
    D. Private home owners may choose to not allow firearms into their dwellings without liability
    E. Landlords may not prohibit their tenants from keeping firearms in rented property unless cohabiting with the landlord and the prohibition is included in a written tenant contract
    F. Churches may choose to not allow firearms into their buildings without liability
    G. Schools may choose to not allow firearms into their buildings without liability
    H. Areas and building designated as ‘high-security’ locations may prohibit firearms. These locations must provide onsite armed security and conduct entry checks with metal detectors and/ or physical searches
    I. Cities or other municipalities may enact greater restrictions on carry of firearms as follows
    1. Prohibition of open carry- the entity shall pay a yearly fee of $10 per citizen, as of the most recent census, to be used as in 9) below
    2. Prohibition of concealed carry- the entity shall pay a yearly fee of $25 per citizen, as of the most recent census, to be used as in 9) below
    3. Prohibition of all carry- the entity shall pay a yearly fee of $50 per citizen, as of the most recent census, to be used as in 9) below
    4. Prohibition of firearm ownership- the entity shall pay a yearly fee of $1000 per citizen, as of the most recent census, to be used as in 9) below. In addition, the entity is are assuming responsibility for their citizens and visitors therefore are liable to civil suits from any injury resulting from legal or illegal gun use

    9) Usage of fees
    A. All fees collected through the above shall go to the Justice department
    B. Monies collected shall be put into an interest bearing fund to be used, as directed by Congress, with the following priorities
    1. Benefit fund to the victims of gun violence or their families
    2. Violence reduction programs
    3. Liability insurance for gun owners. Yearly fee may be set by Congress for participation, not to exceed the median cost of similar private insurance
    4. Gun buyback and amnesty programs for those prohibited by law from owning firearms


    Fire away
    It's hard enough to find a LEO who thoroughly understands the current gun laws and of course, no criminal would care how long the list was.

  7. #52
    Member Array Sarisataka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofwyr View Post

    Tell you what, original poster, let's have a reasonable discussion about making you and your children volunteer government servitude.....ok, let's change that to involuntary government servitude.....well, how bout slavery.......screw it, turn yourself in to the interment camp and slave city.....never mind, we have enough slaves, just queue up at the gas chambers.......


    I think you need to relax a bit.
    As for working for the government I am retired USMC decorated combat veteran. I am also an NRA certified instructor in several disciplines.
    The intent of the post was to get people to talk about what may be reasonable to some and what is not.
    Simple no would have sufficed.

    And you have a nice day as well.
    baren likes this.
    Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor liberty to purchase power.
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  8. #53
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    As others have said, you can't control criminals from getting to and using firearms for their own evil purposes. You can only control the law-abiding, because they, by definition, obey the laws that are put into place to control firearms.

    That means, those who obey the laws will have a harder time getting a firearm while the criminals will find ways around the laws. They are criminals, after all, and therefore don't care if something is legal or not.

    We don't need gun control: we need to fix a broken justice system and empower the law-abiding to protect themselves.
    Crowman and revldm like this.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

    “The purpose of the law is not to prevent a future offense, but to punish the one actually committed” - Ayn Rand

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arborigine View Post
    Reasonable gun control is a 6 inch circle at 15 yards, for rapid fire pistol.
    I could vote for that bill sounds reasonable.
    however we would need a waver for the rapid fire of the old and physically challenged. We need to be fair.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911247 View Post
    Some form of gun control IS needed. Just a question on when enough is enough.
    It's already well more than enough. Enforce the laws already in place, new laws only "control" the law abiding. Does the law against murder stop a murderer? Then why would a law against buying a certain gun stop someone who doesn't care about the laws and wants that gun? There is already a "black market" for guns, stricter gun "control" laws only make that market bigger.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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  11. #56
    Member Array Sarisataka's Avatar
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    Ok I have more time now to explain

    First the line of pistols with 200 ft/lb should have been 2000 ft/lb so it would include large caliber revolvers used for hunting.
    Also this would the a national pre-emption of all state laws, unless they choose to opt-out. I don't believe any state could economically afford to do so.

    I posted these to look at a rough middle ground of what each side seems to be asking for. I even gave the pro-control side more than the pro-rights side would get. The controllers are asking how CO could have happened? They want registration (of course), ammo limits and to hold gun owners responsible (at least partially) for gun violence due to 'easy access'.

    I gave some registration, ammo checks and not very burdensome fees to a pool to help offset gun violence (yes I know it would be used to build a swimming pool somewhere in Death Valley)

    In return we on the pro-rights side would get better access to full auto, carry reciprocity (I did not make that clear) and not much else really. I tried putting the liability onus on those who would wish to restrict rights i.e. Chicago can keep their ban but will pay heavily.

    So far from the other side I am hearing anything from "that's a good start" (we know what that means) to "it won't stop until we ban them all".

    It is priamarily an attempt to see if there is any middle ground. I would not support all of my proposals but looking for a starting place. At this point it seems the answer is no, even registration of civilian semiauto pistols and rifles would not be enough.

    I will give another update in a day or so. Maybe someone will give a counter proposal. I welcome continued critiques.
    Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor liberty to purchase power.
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  12. #57
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I posted these to look at a rough middle ground of what each side seems to be asking for.
    How can you tell me that giving up a portion of what I have is middle ground? What exactly are those attempting to take my rights and the freedom to exercise them giving up? Where is the middle ground if only one side is being asked to give up something they have?

    Michael
    sigmanluke, Crowman, OD* and 2 others like this.

  13. #58
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    OP:

    Since you're getting feedback from the other side as well, ask them this.....

    How do these new laws (you suggested and they say are not enough) stop a criminal (or a would be criminal) from getting a semi auto AR15 in .223 with a multitude of 30 round magazines and thousands of rounds? If they already have a record, they are not purchasing their guns from a FFL anyway. If they don't have a record or "warning signs" of mental instability or psychotic episodes, they would still be able to purchase them just like I would now.
    Crowman likes this.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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  14. #59
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    As some have already posted "reasonable gun laws" are the fast road to banning all weapons.

    History shows us what will happen if all weapons are banned in America. Can you say Prohibition Era. During that period alcohol flowed like water. The suppliers were the gangsters. In fact prohibition played a part in the proliferation of the gangsters. Once all weapons are banned who do you think will be running guns into America. A large percentage of law abiding citizens will no longer have weapons but the criminal element will more than likely have more than they do now.

    If any saying really fits the question of "What is reasonable gun control..." it is:

    Be careful what you wish for
    msgt/ret, ccw9mm and ArmyMan like this.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
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    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisataka View Post
    Ok I have more time now to explain

    First the line of pistols with 200 ft/lb should have been 2000 ft/lb so it would include large caliber revolvers used for hunting.
    Also this would the a national pre-emption of all state laws, unless they choose to opt-out. I don't believe any state could economically afford to do so.

    I posted these to look at a rough middle ground of what each side seems to be asking for. I even gave the pro-control side more than the pro-rights side would get. The controllers are asking how CO could have happened? They want registration (of course), ammo limits and to hold gun owners responsible (at least partially) for gun violence due to 'easy access'.

    I gave some registration, ammo checks and not very burdensome fees to a pool to help offset gun violence (yes I know it would be used to build a swimming pool somewhere in Death Valley)

    In return we on the pro-rights side would get better access to full auto, carry reciprocity (I did not make that clear) and not much else really. I tried putting the liability onus on those who would wish to restrict rights i.e. Chicago can keep their ban but will pay heavily.

    So far from the other side I am hearing anything from "that's a good start" (we know what that means) to "it won't stop until we ban them all".

    It is priamarily an attempt to see if there is any middle ground. I would not support all of my proposals but looking for a starting place. At this point it seems the answer is no, even registration of civilian semiauto pistols and rifles would not be enough.

    I will give another update in a day or so. Maybe someone will give a counter proposal. I welcome continued critiques.
    Had he been using a pocket full of 30 round mags he would have killed many more that cheap 100 Round one he had failed something that happens often with that stuff.
    had he just drop empty ones slapped another he he would have fire many more rounds.
    I a way we are lucky he had the 100 round.
    Middle ground there is none soon as you cave in it starts all over and we then need a new middle ground we been through this.

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