What is reasonable gun control...

This is a discussion on What is reasonable gun control... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Sarisataka I think you need to relax a bit. As for working for the government I am retired USMC decorated combat veteran. ...

Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 119
Like Tree182Likes

Thread: What is reasonable gun control...

  1. #76
    Member Array lordofwyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    306
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisataka View Post
    I think you need to relax a bit.
    As for working for the government I am retired USMC decorated combat veteran. I am also an NRA certified instructor in several disciplines.
    The intent of the post was to get people to talk about what may be reasonable to some and what is not.
    Simple no would have sufficed.

    And you have a nice day as well.
    I have the greatest respect for Marines. My first son - Navy, second son - Marines, fourth son - Marines, me, cop for 30 years. We serve and are proud to have done so.

    Let me say again to the subject or "reasonable discussions on gun control," no.

    There is no more discussion on this in my opinion, since it never ends in "reasonable discussion." It ends with more and more demands for restrictions on our Second Amendment rights by those same people who just wanted a reasonable discussion and reasonable laws originally, and goes on to attempts at more and more restrictions on guns. The truth is they are afraid and feel that getting rid of all guns would in some way make them and their kids safe. Foolish as they are, they cannot accept that the criminals would still have them, and they would be less safe. Look at all cities with extreme "gun control." Highest per capita murders with firearms. Why? Because the criminals do not have to worry about anyone in the law abiding citizenry firing back at them, just other criminals. Makes for a safer work environment when they are out being criminals.

    We already have laws in place, not one of which ever stopped criminals from being criminals. All that is left then is punishment, as there is no deterrence. Criminals without the threat of an armed person will commit crimes with impunity.

    And governments that do not fear that their people might eventually have an armed revolt will reach for tyranny quickly. This has been proven over the entire history of civilization.

    In the end, what always becomes "reasonable" for the gun grabbers is to register all of your guns, then start banning them all piecemeal, and then passing laws that will make those that do not turn them in criminals.

    And don't believe your government would pass laws demanding "voluntary servitude" with a punishment for not volunteering???? Uhm, many local governments are already requiring students to "volunteer" their time to the government or private/public service in order to graduate school. If they do not "volunteer" that time, they cannot graduate......hmmm.....mandatory involuntary unpaid labor is called....what is that little word I am looking for.....oh, yes.... SLAVERY!

    So, no, a simple no from my side was not enough. I believe in being fully informed. I believe an informed populace votes better, and I am tired of ignorant people voting my rights away, because good people always forget the power that can be wielded by masses of ignorant people in large numbers led by the rhetoric of those who would enslave us to their agendas.

    Ok, rant done......
    Fortune Favors the Bold!

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #77
    Distinguished Member
    Array Pistology's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    South Coast LA Cty
    Posts
    1,976
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911247 View Post
    How do we keep our rights as we like them, but at the same time keep our streets safe.

    That my friend is the million dollar question, and one that i dont believe will have an answer to any time soon.
    The founders answered it to the king's face. Americans bled and died for rights - not luxuries that we keep because "we like them". Those rights are priceless. There will always be streets to keep safe.
    The American answer was fledgling to the known universe and remains fragile but, thankfully, defended by some of the best.
    So, turn it around, as I put it to you: are these gun controls something for which you are ready to give your life and all that you own? Have you put that much thought into it? Or are these controls concessions that you're willing to offer into the ether like your most recent coin toss into the wishing well?
    Choose your answer carefully, my friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    Ok...

    NCIS at point-of-sale for licensed dealers only. Private sellers not required to perform background check (they can't use NCIS anyway). Seller required to give a free trigger lock at the buyer's request. No other requirements. No limit on characteristics of the weapon. No limit on number of weapons perchised. No limit on amount of ammunition perchised. Civilians not allowed to buy, sell or posses tracer/incendiary or armor piercing ammunition. No waiting periods. No special taxes on weapons or ammo or other items, services or any kind of property or asset related to selling firearms in any way what-so-ever. No CCW, permit or other certification needed to buy or carry, concealed or open, loaded or unloaded, any hand gun or rifle. Registration is illegal. Allowed to carry concealed onto all school campuses of every kind, to include elementary and post secondary schools. Allowed to carry onto collage campuses. Private businesses subject to Public Accommodation law (that means this rule wouldn't apply to factories, etc) that wish to ban firearms from their premises must demonstrate a 'need' and show what alternate armed security will be provided on the premises, in their application for an annually renewed 'public hazard' permit.

    Mandatory gun safety class, to include range time and qualification, as a federal requirement in all highschool curriculum.
    Why should government impose on a private business operation to provide any product including a gun lock? And where does the Constitution authorize a mandate to attend gun safety class? The federal government has no legitimate authority for direct involvement in setting required high school cirriculum including private schools.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    Only gun control I support are instant checks and nothing more.
    NICS, thanks to the Brady Bunch, not the founding fathers or the Constitution.

    Besides listing as "restrictions" what "may be purchased" by honest citizens, a legal faux pas, the OP's proposition for reasonable gun control is unsound and invalid as the proposition has no provision for sawed-off shotguns, silencers, or disguised guns; and how does the proposition address age restrictions, imports, FFL licensing, record-keeping requirements, residency requirements to purchase a gun, etc? If all that it excludes is power reserved to the people, as a law should be, then it may have some merit in its loopholes. But if its restrictions are hidden as including everything that it doesn't permit, then it deserves the contempt that it is receiving.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  4. #78
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, AR
    Posts
    13,687
    What is reasonable gun control... ?
    How's about you tell me. That way I'll know where WE stand. Since you asked the question, I have suspicions about you.
    CLASS3NH likes this.

  5. #79
    Member Array JJVP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    493
    I like it, except items 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9. Get rid of those and you might have something.
    Crowman and sigmanluke like this.

  6. #80
    Member Array Sarisataka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    OP:

    Since you're getting feedback from the other side as well, ask them this.....

    How do these new laws (you suggested and they say are not enough) stop a criminal (or a would be criminal) from getting a semi auto AR15 in .223 with a multitude of 30 round magazines and thousands of rounds? If they already have a record, they are not purchasing their guns from a FFL anyway. If they don't have a record or "warning signs" of mental instability or psychotic episodes, they would still be able to purchase them just like I would now.
    Answer- I will paraphrase.
    Since the 2A is about government controlled militias (they opine that SCOTUS was wrong and reversed precedent, even though this was the 1st SCOTUS ruling, and a more liberal court will reverse Heller and MacDonald) that registration is ok "for now". The issue would have to be revisited after the presumed SCOTUS reversal. Private ownership of 'military grade' weaponry might be redundant.
    At least there is agreement on psychiatric testing. It would only determine you are sane at the time of the test. Once you get the shooter in your hands its mind control capabilities may affect you in ways you only dream of while watching movies...
    Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor liberty to purchase power.
    -Ben Franklin

  7. #81
    Member Array Sarisataka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by lordofwyr View Post
    I have the greatest respect for Marines. My first son - Navy, second son - Marines, fourth son - Marines, me, cop for 30 years. We serve and are proud to have done so.
    My thanks to you and yours for your service.

    Ok, rant done......
    My turn

    With the "proposal" I put here and there I am dangling one of the biggest carrots of the pro-control side; registration of the majority of self-defense and higher capacity firearms. Also throw in magazine restrictions and gun owners funding a "we are sorry criminals use the same tools we do" kitty. Asking the question is this enough?

    It seems the answer is no. Pro-rights liberals are in agreement with the opinion expressed here, registration is a no-go. The majority of pro-controllers immediately dismiss it out of hand as not enough. They poke the holes where criminals would still be able to circumvent the restrictions. (funny how they scream when we point out how ludicrous the AWB was in that it did not hinder criminal activity at all... ) A small group, two at last count, see 'some merit' but would want even further government oversight and require licensing and insurance like, you guessed it, cars.

    It will take someone far wiser than I (like... James Madison ) to weigh in on this issue. While I may be a bleeding heart liberal at times, I have never had any doubt what the 2A stands for. Compromise means there is give and take so neither is happy at the end of the day, but if it is one side gives and the other takes, then there isn't any compromise to begin with.


    C'est la guerre
    Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor liberty to purchase power.
    -Ben Franklin

  8. #82
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    Compromise means there is give and take so neither is happy at the end of the day, but if it is one side gives and the other takes, then there isn't any compromise to begin with.
    The trouble is that those in favor of gun control have nothing to give. As you say it isn't compromise if only one side is giving up anything.

    Michael

  9. #83
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Posts
    1,455
    I have neither the desire, nor the tolerance for compromise when it comes to gun control. I know the term is over-used and cliche, but I will stand my ground when it comes to the 2A and people trying to take away my rights.
    Walk softly ...

  10. #84
    Member Array Sarisataka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    The trouble is that those in favor of gun control have nothing to give. As you say it isn't compromise if only one side is giving up anything.

    Michael
    Funny coincidence, this came out today http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...rity-bill.html

    “Maybe we could come together on guns if each side gave some,” Schumer said.

    begging the question, what is the control side giving?
    Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor liberty to purchase power.
    -Ben Franklin

  11. #85
    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,631
    The only gun control acceptable to the anti's is NO guns for law-abiding citizens - only police and Hollywierd body guards. Feinstein ran her trap on Sunday and lied on camera (gee, never saw that one coming). She said she has "no problem with people using handguns or rifles or shotguns to defend themselves...." What a bunch of hooey - she spend her entire career voting against that and only accepted reality after SCOTUS ruled n the Heller case. Sorry - give the antis an inch and the yarn unravels.
    Tim
    BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    ________
    NRA Life Member

  12. #86
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    “Maybe we could come together on guns if each side gave some,” Schumer said.
    Its like compromising with a mugger. The mugger thinks he is giving you something if he allows you to keep a portion of what you already had.

    Michael
    mprp and lordofwyr like this.

  13. #87
    Distinguished Member
    Array Pistology's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    South Coast LA Cty
    Posts
    1,976
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisataka View Post
    Since the 2A is about government controlled militias (they opine that SCOTUS was wrong and reversed precedent, even though this was the 1st SCOTUS ruling, and a more liberal court will reverse Heller and MacDonald) that registration is ok "for now". The issue would have to be revisited after the presumed SCOTUS reversal. Private ownership of 'military grade' weaponry might be redundant.
    At least there is agreement on psychiatric testing. It would only determine you are sane at the time of the test. Once you get the shooter in your hands its mind control capabilities may affect you in ways you only dream of while watching movies...
    Charles Manson was great at mind control as long as the minds were suggestible which those of Vacaville apparently are not unless he is manipulating his own life sentence.
    Stare decisis on 2A and gun ownership rules. The decision stands. Anyone in your internet group who believes that SCOTUS was wrong in Heller or McDonald and that, with enough senseless acts of violence in this country, SCOTUS is going to reverse is in left field. SCOTUS is not going to reverse itself on its interpretation of the Second Amendment.
    Brown v Board of Education reversed Plessey v Ferguson and separate-but-equal or in many cases in favor of empowering due process and the individual against earlier rulings favoring arbitrary government powers.
    Time will prove your group wrong, not SCOTUS.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  14. #88
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    West Allis WI
    Posts
    2,761
    If I didn't know any better I would think the 1-9 "reasonable" gun control list was written by the "get our foot in the door" anti gun folks... Just saying........
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  15. #89
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,886
    Here's some more gun control. If you don't want any, don't buy any. And I promise not bother you about it.
    Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME

    Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.

  16. #90
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisataka View Post

    “Maybe we could come together on guns if each side gave some,” Schumer said.

    begging the question, what is the control side giving?
    The only thing that's funny about any of this to me is that our side is guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States that we don't have to give up ANYTHING! Our side "shall not be infringed". I'm unwilling to give up ANYTHING. There needs to be NO compromises, they have nothing to "give up", I I don't have to per the Constitution.

    What else is there to talk about on this subject?

    The ONLY thing worth talking about any more is; when do we get the rights back that we've already lost.
    BigStick, msgt/ret, 40Bob and 2 others like this.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

legitimate restrictions on gun ownership
,
powered by mybb activity pages
,

powered by mybb brown vs board of education

,
powered by mybb business for sale california
,
powered by mybb california business for sale
,

powered by mybb california code

,

powered by mybb florida child support enforcement

,
powered by mybb funny things to think
,
powered by mybb ga child support
,
powered by mybb iowa child support
,
powered by mybb list of funny things to do in a car
,
powered by mybb state laws for child support
,
powered by mybb state of oregon
,
powered by mybb study astronomy
,

powered by mybb verb

Click on a term to search for related topics.