Ignatious Piazza offers to fund CCW denial Cinemark lawsuit

This is a discussion on Ignatious Piazza offers to fund CCW denial Cinemark lawsuit within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by barstoolguru Texas law says they are responsible for the damage and death from their own gun causes But according the hot dogs ...

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Thread: Ignatious Piazza offers to fund CCW denial Cinemark lawsuit

  1. #151
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Texas law says they are responsible for the damage and death from their own gun causes
    But according the hot dogs are more of a danger to the theater then guns from their stand point
    What do you think though....the theater let someone in with a gun and someone got injured. Should the theater be partially responsibile. Don't make it state specific, what do you think is proper?

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  3. #152
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    (1) if this is the case then why ban them from carrying?

    (2) If there were no signs up at all would the general public know the difference? After all the BG don't care about signs
    1. to make 99% of the public, (customers) feel safer because there aren't guns.

    2. the public wouldn't know any difference other than not seeing a sign banning guns. You're right BG's don't care about signs, but that has nothing to do with whether a business liable for someone doing something illegal in their business. (As long as the business didn't allow the activity)
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  4. #153
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Texas law says they are responsible for the damage and death from their own gun causes
    But according the hot dogs are more of a danger to the theater then guns from their stand point
    I am pretty sure CO laws say the same thing, along with every other state. So how does one make the jump from a ND being the fault of the gun owner, to the intentional actions of an individual being the fault of the property owner?
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  5. #154
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    1. to make 99% of the public, (customers) feel safer because there aren't guns.
    2. the public wouldn't know any difference other than not seeing a sign banning guns. You're right BG's don't care about signs, but that has nothing to do with whether a business liable for someone doing something illegal in their business. (As long as the business didn't allow the activity)
    do they feel any safer now ? (Assumption ) And what do you base this theory on? What proof, survey or documentation that says that the general public feels safer when law abiding citizens can’t carry?

  6. #155
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    You are making assumptions that cameras would have prevented this horror...BTW: going to ever answer if a theater is responsible if they let in a CCP holder and someone gets injured or killed?

  7. #156
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    I am pretty sure Assumption CO laws say the same thing, along with every other state. So how does one make the jump from a ND being the fault of the gun owner, to the intentional actions of an individual being the fault of the property owner?
    We are not saying that the bullets and gun are responsibility of the property owner but that the property owns/management has a responsibility to reasonably to secure the property from illegal use and they didn’t do that

  8. #157
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    You are making assumptions that cameras would have prevented this horror...BTW: going to ever answer if a theater is responsible if they let in a CCP holder and someone gets injured or killed?
    Cameras in combo with door alarms and security would have lessened the chance this guy could do this. After all we know that criminals go after the easiest targets and they made this easy

  9. #158
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Here I looked it up for you, since my "assumption" was correct.

    18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons
    (1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:
    (a) He knowingly and unlawfully aims a firearm at another person; or
    (b) Recklessly or with criminal negligence he discharges a firearm or shoots a bow and arrow; or
    18-3-204. Assault in the third degree
    (1) A person commits the crime of assault in the third degree if:
    (a) The person knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another person or with criminal negligence the person causes bodily injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon; or
    Do you really think that any state doesn't make it illegal to discharge a firearm and injure or kill someone whether intentionally or negligently?
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  10. #159
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Here I looked it up for you, since my "assumption" was correct.

    Do you really think that any state doesn't make it illegal to discharge a firearm and injure or kill someone whether intentionally or negligently?
    one more time we are not talking about the theater being responsible for the damages done from the shooter but fact that they made it easy for the shooter to enter from an unsecure fire door that had no security or alarm to control the public access.

  11. #160
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    one more time we are not talking about the theater being responsible for the damages done from the shooter but fact that they made it easy for the shooter to enter from an unsecure fire door that had no security or alarm to control the public access.
    And that goes back to my question to you: Is a theater responsible if they allow weapons in and someone gets injured or killed? And as an aside...doesn't allowing weapons in kinda like defeat the purpose of having cameras installed and security guards to make sure no one can get in. I mean, you are allowing weapons in. You can handle each one individually if you like

  12. #161
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    And that goes back to my question to you: Is a theater responsible if they allow weapons in and someone gets injured or killed? And as an aside...doesn't allowing weapons in kinda like defeat the purpose of having cameras installed and security guards to make sure no one can get in. I mean, you are allowing weapons in. You can handle each one individually if you like

    Wal-Mart has security inside and out the store along with cameras and they allow guns. Do you see anyone saying “I ain’t going to Wal-Mart because someone might have a gun?” and by the way they lock their fire doors AND have alarms on them
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  13. #162
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Wal-Mart has security inside and out the store along with cameras and they allow guns. Do you see anyone saying “I ain’t going to Wal-Mart because someone might have a gun?” and by the way they lock their fire doors AND have alarms on them
    So if this guy opened up fire in a Wal Mart by bypassing security then Wal Mart is not liable? Is that what you are saying? I mean he could have walked in with an Uzi in a bag.....

  14. #163
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    one more time we are not talking about the theater being responsible for the damages done from the shooter but fact that they made it easy for the shooter to enter from an unsecure fire door that had no security or alarm to control the public access.
    Was the door locked from the outside before the shooter who entered the theater after waiting in line and paying for a ticket went out the door and propped it open? What would cameras have done? Do cameras at Walmart stop any crimes, say in the parking lot. No, they record the event. The folks watching the cameras are paying attention to the inside of the store for loss prevention.

    The theater didn't make it easy, they had a fire door which by law must remain in a manner that people can get out of the door without any trouble. Now whether that door is required to sound an alarm when opened might be debateable. Maybe you can check CO statutes to see if it must sound an audible alarm when opened. If statutes don't require that, then where is the theater at fault.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  15. #164
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    But it is still private property, right? The owner makes the rules, right? Would you want the government to dictate what you can and cannot do on your private property .. with the realm of public safety, such as making bombs or meth, or whatever? My goodness, the Supreme Court has ruled that a business corporation, has free political speech! Surely, if a business corporation has freedom of speech and can influence political elections, then it can safely say "NO GUNS" and not be worried about the pesky little detail of the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution. I hope my sarcasm is coming through here. If I was at that movie house in Colorado, carrying my legally permitted concealed weapon, and saw a 'no guns sign' would I have turned back ... probably not. "Concealed" is concealed, right? If I was in that movie house in Colorado when that psycho opened fire, do I think I would have made a difference ... probably not. Maybe, just maybe, if I wasn't hit, or paralyzed from shock, or crapping my pants, crawling under a seat, and close enough to see through the smoke bombs and muzzle flashes, and saw the shooter exit that door, maybe I would have had enough adrenilline, sense,courage, whatever to bar that door. Try to keep it shut and shoot that f***er in the face if he tried to come back through. I pray to God I'll never know.

  16. #165
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Was the door locked from the outside before the shooter who entered the theater after waiting in line and paying for a ticket went out the door and propped it open? What would cameras have done? Do cameras at Walmart stop any crimes, say in the parking lot. No, they record the event. The folks watching the cameras are paying attention to the inside of the store for loss prevention.

    The theater didn't make it easy, they had a fire door which by law must remain in a manner that people can get out of the door without any trouble. Now whether that door is required to sound an alarm when opened might be debateable. Maybe you can check CO statutes to see if it must sound an audible alarm when opened. If statutes don't require that, then where is the theater at fault.
    so do you think they have a security system for when they lock up at night so if someone enters the building after they close up? but don't have one when they are open incase someone opens a fire door or leaves it ajared.

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