Ignatious Piazza offers to fund CCW denial Cinemark lawsuit

This is a discussion on Ignatious Piazza offers to fund CCW denial Cinemark lawsuit within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by gasmitty Ought to be interesting to see where this one goes. I'd bet a Starbucks grande extra hot triple non fat decaf ...

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Thread: Ignatious Piazza offers to fund CCW denial Cinemark lawsuit

  1. #196
    Ex Member Array oldrwizr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Ought to be interesting to see where this one goes. I'd bet a Starbucks grande extra hot triple non fat decaf two pump vanilla no foam latte with cinnamon and chocolate sprinkles that some lawyer takes this one on.
    If you can add a small squirt of Amaretto I'm in.

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  3. #197
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    And I ask you this: If the theater allowed guns and there was an AD or ND...would the Cinema be liable at all? You darn well know that there would be a lawsuit brought against them..
    I did a search and can't find any incidences where a gun went off by a legally carrying person... not a single one so what are their bases to ban in the first place?
    To provide a safe environment?... that argument is toast

    Again. Fire doors are not designed to keep people from coming in. They are designed to allow people to go out without obstruction.
    they have handles on the outside of fire doors now?
    Fire_Doors.jpg

  4. #198
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    I did a search and can't find any incidences where a gun went off by a legally carrying person... not a single one so what are their bases to ban in the first place?
    To provide a safe environment?... that argument is toast
    Prior to Aurora how many mass shootings occured in a theater by a BG that used a fire door as a means to get his weapons inside???? Come on, yo talk about liability. Folks that carry have ND's and AD's all the time..Becasue that is a known risk with any weapon then one can argue that it is a possibility that it will eventually occur in a theater.

    And let us suppose it did..is the theater liable? Or at least partially at fault?

  5. #199
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post

    they have handles on the outside of fire doors now?
    Fire_Doors.jpg
    Go read the fire code and see if there is anything mentioned besides what is required for egress (exit) from the building. That is what they are designed for.

    If you would like I can go take pictures of a faternal building that has handles on the outside of two fire doors. Would that make you feel better?
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  6. #200
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Prior to Aurora how many mass shootings occured in a theater by a BG that used a fire door as a means to get his weapons inside???? Come on, yo talk about liability. Folks that carry have ND's and AD's all the time..Becasue that is a known risk with any weapon then one can argue that it is a possibility that it will eventually occur in a theater.
    And let us suppose it did..is the theater liable? Or at least partially at fault?
    But there is no proof that I can find that I legal carrying CCW permit holder had an ND/AD in a theater. Now if we do a search on movie theater violence we find that there is a history of it starting with President Lincoln (shot in a theater from a man that entered through a fire door)

    You mention something about the shooter coming in through the front door. If he did and there was some kind of security he might have got some but nowhere near 71 people

    Now we look at violence in theaters as a whole and the need for some kind of security when they have a movie like the "dark night"

    A History of Violence in Movie Theaters

    In the past, though, that violence has usually been the result of gang activity — fights during screenings of the 1979 gang film "The Warriors" left three people dead, while there were more than two dozen separate incidents of violence nationwide at showings of 1991 "Boyz in da Hood"— or arguments breaking out over crowd noise. In 2008, for example, a man shot another theater patron during a screening of "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" because he felt the victim and his family were being too loud, while in 2010, a man was stabbed with a meat thermometer after he tried to shush some rowdy people in the row behind him.
    http://www.nextmovie.com/blog/movie-...lence-history/

  7. #201
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    So what right was being denied? Your previous posts imply that it is the 2nd A......please explain.... So far you said they may have violated a fire code. I am not even aruging that something like that is why folks sue..I am trying to see how you tie this into the denial of them carrying

    BTW: Reports show that he opened the door from the inside and propped it opened.
    Just as some folks say the theater has the right to refuse guns, others say the public has the right to refuse licenses to businesses which deny guns; thus the debate and dialogue on what should be don.

    Can you demonstrate a harm a business would suffer if the law were to force them to allow guns?

  8. #202
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    But there is no proof that I can find that I legal carrying CCW permit holder had an ND/AD in a theater. Now if we do a search on movie theater violence we find that there is a history of it starting with President Lincoln (shot in a theater from a man that entered through a fire door)

    You mention something about the shooter coming in through the front door. If he did and there was some kind of security he might have got some but nowhere near 71 people

    Now we look at violence in theaters as a whole and the need for some kind of security when they have a movie like the "dark night"

    A History of Violence in Movie Theaters



    http://www.nextmovie.com/blog/movie-...lence-history/
    Spring of 1865: On April 14 Lincoln, his wife Mary, and a few guests share a box stage left at Ford’s for a performance of Our American Cousin. John T. Ford’s brother, James, is left in charge of the theatre on this evening. During intermission, Lincoln’s bodyguard goes to the lobby bar for a drink but does not return for the start of Act 3. John Wilkes Booth enters Ford’s through a backstage door with the help of a stagehand and proceeds to Lincoln’s box.
    Where does it say fire door? Plus he had assistance and it was a planned assassination.

  9. #203
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Spring of 1865: On April 14 Lincoln, his wife Mary, and a few guests share a box stage left at Ford’s for a performance of Our American Cousin. John T. Ford’s brother, James, is left in charge of the theatre on this evening. During intermission, Lincoln’s bodyguard goes to the lobby bar for a drink but does not return for the start of Act 3. John Wilkes Booth enters Ford’s through a backstage door with the help of a stagehand and proceeds to Lincoln’s box.
    Where does it say fire door? Plus he had assistance and it was a planned assassination.
    back then they didn't have fire codes until the early 1900's so we can assume that the back door/ stage (fire door today) door was locked from the inside to restrict outside access as it is today in many theaters thus another security fail

  10. #204
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    back then they didn't have fire codes until the early 1900's so we can assume that the back door/ stage (fire door today) door was locked from the inside to restrict outside access as it is today in many theaters thus another security fail
    You just crack me up...we can just assume....I was actually just messing with ya anyway. I swear, you would sue no matter what the circumstances are. You would find a way to sue regardless of the circumstances. Front door, back door, worked there as a security guard, you would find a reason to sue.

    You just can't get over the fact that a nut staked out the place and was determined to do harm and sadly bad things happen. I monday morning quarterback like everybody else. But I do it to find out what worked and what didn't. Not to lay blame unless criminally negligent like locking the doors and there was a fire.

    If you were an Aviation Safety Officer you would be laying blame and firing folks for every accident cause you would find something that could have been done better. Just like 9/11, after a tregedy you look at what was set in place and if the requirements were being met. If they were there is no negligence. It is a hard learning lesson and you change the laws, the ordinaces so that individual and like situations will not happen again.

    You don't sue if the owner was following all laws and guidleines...period

  11. #205
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    you would sue no matter what the circumstances are
    This is not true, we have a right to a reasonable amount of safety and if you buy a ticket and enter the establishment they have an obligation to fulfill their end of the agreement. they refused others the right to protect them self’s thus taking on the responsibility them self’s.

    we are not talking about a woman spilling coffee on herself, we are not talking about someone with size 10 feet in size 12 shoes because that was the only size left at the bargain table and then tripping while walking through the lobby.

    We are talking about 71 people that had no control over their own right to protect themselves because the theater chose to delegate what was best for everyone and in doing so takes on that responsibility

    Since you have not answered any questions I don’t know why I am adding this (you answer questions with another question) IF we were in my truck and driving down the road and I took out the seat belts because I felt you didn’t need them and we had an accident would you seek damages because of my decision not to have seat belts because I felt we were safe enough without them?

  12. #206
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    This is not true, we have a right to a reasonable amount of safety and if you buy a ticket and enter the establishment they have an obligation to fulfill their end of the agreement. they refused others the right to protect them self’s thus taking on the responsibility them self’s.

    we are not talking about a woman spilling coffee on herself, we are not talking about someone with size 10 feet in size 12 shoes because that was the only size left at the bargain table and then tripping while walking through the lobby.

    We are talking about 71 people that had no control over their own right to protect themselves because the theater chose to delegate what was best for everyone and in doing so takes on that responsibility

    Since you have not answered any questions I don’t know why I am adding this (you answer questions with another question) IF we were in my truck and driving down the road and I took out the seat belts because I felt you didn’t need them and we had an accident would you seek damages because of my decision not to have seat belts because I felt we were safe enough without them?
    Honestly no I would not even entertain the thought of sueing. I knew the risk and decided to get in your car. I am sure you got into a wreck becasue you were distracted becasue we were having this conversation though LOL!
    But no again...I could have made the choice to not get in your vehicle. These folks went in knowing they could not be armed. I do not expect a theater to protect me from a madman..a fire yes.
    Last edited by suntzu; August 6th, 2012 at 02:22 PM. Reason: You would sue me for distracting you! LOL

  13. #207
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Honestly no I would not even entertain the thought of sueing. I knew the risk and decided to get in your car. I am sure you got into a wreck becasue you were distracted becasue we were having this conversation though LOL!
    But no again...I could have made the choice to not get in your vehicle. These folks went in knowing they could not be armed. I do not expect a theater to protect me from a madman..a fire yes.
    Who knows the wreck would have be an accident, good chance it could have been on propose...lol

    so now the theater has an obligation in case of fire to give you an out, they have an obligation to make sure your food is safe but they have no obligation to make sure you are safe from acts of violence even though there is a history of violence when movies like this are played or is it that unless they are FORCED into like the fire code and restaurant codes do... they don't want to spend the money so they have bigger profits... 71 people are injured or dead.... O'well just another day in the business world... look ticket sales are dropping off we better add some security so people feel safe once again until this blows over and then we will pull them

    And your right security will not stop someone from being violent but what it does deters it/or minimalizes the damage done because of no resistance

  14. #208
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    We are talking about 71 people that had no control over their own right to protect themselves because the theater chose to delegate what was best for everyone and in doing so takes on that responsibility

    Buzzzerr, wrong answer. The people had every right not to enter the theater. If they were concerned for their safety they should have stayed home or gone to another theater. Why is that so hard for one to understand?
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  15. #209
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Do no gun signs carry any weight of law in CO?. Handgunlaw.us says they do not unless it is on an already prohibited place. If that is the case, what right was denied again?
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  16. #210
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Buzzzerr, wrong answer. The people had every right not to enter the theater. If they were concerned for their safety they should have stayed home or gone to another theater. Why is that so hard for one to understand?
    if everyone though that way no one would go anywhere. Why do we have OSHA, why do we have code enforcement, why do we have fire codes because we should not have to worry about someone trying to save a dollar and jeopardizing safety? Why have hunter education classes, I am not out in the woods with then who cares if they shoot them self’s.
    Why have CHL classes when you can't take your gun anywhere but to Wal-Mart and 7-11. Why is it so hard for you to understand that when you pay a fee to enter a business they take on a reasonable amount of responsibility and when they refuse you the right of self-protection then their responsibility gets bigger?

    If the shooter is responsible for the damage he/she and not the business they why do they restrict guns? They can’t be held responsible or can they?

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