Ignatious Piazza offers to fund CCW denial Cinemark lawsuit

This is a discussion on Ignatious Piazza offers to fund CCW denial Cinemark lawsuit within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; @barstoolguru: You have got to be sooooo kidding me. You quote a couple of things and the murder happened 7 years ago......This quote was in ...

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Thread: Ignatious Piazza offers to fund CCW denial Cinemark lawsuit

  1. #121
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    @barstoolguru: You have got to be sooooo kidding me. You quote a couple of things and the murder happened 7 years ago......This quote was in the article also:

    Yet few mall policies could have helped catch James Holmes. The 24-year-old graduate student at the University of Colorado grew up in a white, upper middle class family in San Diego -- as close as it gets to one of Town Center's target customers.

    "It doesn't matter if you have 100 parent patrols at the mall or at the movies," said Simmons. "That guy was going to do what he did."
    Is that article in the Huffington Post suppose to supporting your lawsuit idea or what?

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  3. #122
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    @barstoolguru: You have got to be sooooo kidding me. You quote a couple of things and the murder happened 7 years ago......This quote was in the article also:
    Is that article in the Huffington Post suppose to supporting your lawsuit idea or what?
    All I did was post what others are saying and they said that they have to prove that the area has a crime problem in order to sue them for damages because they didn’t have enough security. The second article shows that the mall and area around the mall has a crime problem which will support the suit.

    Security increased at theaters after shootings
    Security increased at theaters after shootings | movie, theaters, security - Entertainment - The Orange County Register

  4. #123
    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    so if I leave my gun out and a child shoots another I should not be responsible either, after all I didn't pull the trigger!

    just out of curousity when is a person responsable for what they do.... when there is no one else to blame!!

    here one.... I was driving down the road and the sun got in my eye's and I couldn't see.... it was the sun's fault
    What you seem to be failing to grasp is that businesses and people cannot be held responsible for every conceivable risk or damage. Reasonable steps have to be taken to prevent injury and loss, but no one is expected to be able to foresee every possible avenue that could lead to damage, injury, or death.

    It is unreasonable to leave a gun out in the presence of children because you should be able to reasonably foresee that they might play with it and cause injury or death. Many states have statutes that make it a criminal offense to allow a child to access a firearm. On the other hand, if you were at work and some kids broke into your house and found an unsecured firearm and shot someone, you wouldn't be liable.

    As for driving and the sun getting in your eyes, that is also something that can be foreseen and reasonable steps can be taken to prevent it, sunglasses, visor shades, pulling over to the side of the road, etc.

    The person responsible for this incident is the shooter, plain and simple. I'm sorry that he doesn't have deep pockets for the victims to recover damages from, but that doesn't mean that businesses, that couldn't reasonably foresee or prevent a mass shooting are liable for his actions.
    -Landric

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  5. #124
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    What you seem to be failing to grasp is that businesses and people cannot be held responsible for every conceivable risk or damage. Reasonable steps have to be taken to prevent injury and loss, but no one is expected to be able to foresee every possible avenue that could lead to damage, injury, or death.
    At least 96 killed in nightclub inferno- sorry we didn't see this one coming so we are not responsible
    At least 96 killed in nightclub inferno - CNN

    ten mordern night club fires- sorry we didn't see this one coming so we are not responsible- didn't see these either

    Aug 2, 1985: Delta Flight 191 Crashes | Video - ABC News
    Top 10 Modern Night Club*Fires

    none of these people died from a gun but what they did die from is negligents of another
    191 people die in plane crash-sorry we didn't see this one coming so we are not responsible- didn't see these either
    Aug 2, 1985: Delta Flight 191 Crashes | Video - ABC News



    I had a small trucking co and when the trailer blew a tire and it damaged someones car I paid for the damage-I didn't forsee it but I paid anyway. where they too close maybe but it was my tire and it was a good tire no recap.

  6. #125
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Still trying to see how posting a no gun sign is negligence. You started this whole thing by saying they were denied their rights. Now we are on to airplane crashes and fires. Please, try to explain again how their rights were denied and how that is negligence. And stop segueing off to other types of negligence.

    In case you forgot these were your words on page one:
    WE need this; this is going to be a landmark case. when Cinemark gets sued for big money and the word gets out that if you deny someone’s right to protect themselves AND don't furnish proper security you can and will be sued the GUN BUSTER sign will come down. We as a whole need this to counter react some of the knee jerk reactions from business owners
    You keep trying to justify the second part (poorly IMO) but you keep failing to explain the first part. Every example you give us may be negligence to some degree but no one was denied a right that would have prevented the fires or plane crash, or even your flat tire.

    And as far as this quote:
    The second article shows that the mall and area around the mall has a crime problem which will support the suit.
    The article brought up mostly ancient history (at least 7 years since the murder).

  7. #126
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    so if I leave my gun out and a child shoots another I should not be responsible either, after all I didn't pull the trigger!

    just out of curousity when is a person responsable for what they do.... when there is no one else to blame!!

    here one.... I was driving down the road and the sun got in my eye's and I couldn't see.... it was the sun's fault
    As Landric has stated, most states if not all have laws that are on the books to keep people from letting a minor to gain access to a readily dischargable firearm. And yes there are exceptions for them gaining access while engaged in criminal activity, ie breaking in your home along with other things depending on the state.

    The car keys are not dangerous, so no there aren't laws that say you must lock up your car keys, kitchen knives, gas containers, lawn mowers, power tools, or any other nonsense like that.

    In cases where there is a pattern of violence taking place at a location that is different. In Texas we have public nuisance laws that are in place to protect neighboring property owners from a business or home from making the area intolerable. There has to be a pattern that can be established in order for it to be used. Has this theater had a pattern of mass shootings?

    I think you're wizzing in the wind to think that property owners are responsible for every action that takes place on their property. Laws and court rulings certainly don't agree with the way you would like it to be. Thankfully.
    suntzu likes this.
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  8. #127
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Russell said that in cases where courts have held businesses liable for crime on their premises, plaintiffs have demonstrated a pattern existed, for example, repeated robberies at the business or assaults in its parking lot, the newspaper reported.

    the theater and mall next door has crime all over it and can be proven

  9. #128
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Russell said that in cases where courts have held businesses liable for crime on their premises, plaintiffs have demonstrated a pattern existed, for example, repeated robberies at the business or assaults in its parking lot, the newspaper reported.

    the theater and mall next door has crime all over it and can be proven
    Dude it is long past time you go ahead and take the advice in your profile quote.
    suntzu likes this.

  10. #129
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    well the guy from sight see something and the lawyer that files a suit sees something so I guess we will see what the future brings because we are getting nowhere here.... like batman says... same time, same place, same channel

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    As has been stated already. The theater can't be guilty of violating someones 2A rights. Would they be guilty of violating someone 1A right is they told folks not to talk on cell phones or text during the movie. NO!!!!! Before every movie they tell you not to and if you don't abide by their rule, they ask you to leave. As a property owner they can restrict what they want, again as has been stated, unless it is against a protected class, of race, gender, religion ect.

    The question, depending on the lawsuit, will likely be, did the theater take reasonable measures to ensure the safety of their patrons. The fact that they did not knowingly let the gunman into the theater to kill and injure all those people will come into play. Depending on what state law is regarding fire exits, there might be some room there if there is a violation, but I doubt it would translate into negligence on this matter. If the faulty fire system caused injury due to fire, that would be another matter....
    Theaters require that speech not disturb patrons and interfere with their business transaction. It's why free speech doesn't extend to yelling, "fire!" in a crowded theater. It's a famous example. Carrying a firearm does not interfere with business.
    You are correct that businesses don't violate the Bill of Rights, though all laws flow from the authority of the Constitution. However, you are also correct in that consumers have rights to safety and expectation of protection - especially if they are denied self defense. I concede that yours is the better case and that businesses have property rights but not the right to be tyrannical which denying carry may be.
    I still hope the best for Mr. Piazza and believe that his effort educational and a force on one front of the self-defense rights movement.
    The gun ban sign is a thug/looney magnet, and I take my business elsewhere.
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    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
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  12. #131
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Ought to be interesting to see where this one goes. I'd bet a Starbucks grande extra hot triple non fat decaf two pump vanilla no foam latte with cinnamon and chocolate sprinkles that some lawyer takes this one on.
    That wager is specific enough to pique Mr Piazza's lawsuit interest.
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  13. #132
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    Dude it is long past time you go ahead and take the advice in your profile quote.


  14. #133
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    I do not believe its a matter of CCW denial. The issue it not about the 2nd amendment at all.

    As to the posts on this thread.... On one side there are those that feel America has become sue over anything and those that believe in the case of the Colorado incident suing is the right option. It is more about the business (theater in this case) providing a safe environment for the patrons. If the one of the speakers fell off the wall and injured someone are you saying the injured party has not right to sue.

    Most of use carry homeowners/renters insurance which usually covers someone being injured on your property. Does that not imply we could be sued. Just asking..........
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
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    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  15. #134
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    Those are two completely different scenarios that are not comparable. The case of the speaker is caused by a failure of proper installation or maintenance by theater employees or contractors hired by the theater. A mass murder is caused by an individual(s), not associated with the business, who have chosen to violate laws. In the case of the speaker, the theater was negligent or reckless; in the case of a mass murderer, the gunman is. If we make the reasonable assumption that the theater has complied with all the applicable building codes, they were not negligent in their actions and this instance was an unforeseeable event - if it had been foreseeable there would have been precautions included in the building codes just like fires, etc. Seriously, anyone who cannot distinguish the differences should consider themselves part of the problem wrt where this country is headed.

    Bringing in homeowners insurance brings nothing to the argument. Whether or not you can be sued is irrelevant because you can be subject to a lawsuit whether you are negligent or not. Homeowners insurance serves multiple purposes - protect your property in case of loss, give you access to legal counsel you wouldn't otherwise be able to afford, provide a pool of monetary resources for both settlements and judgements. Settlements, in fact, are these suits' ultimate goal - collecting money from deep pockets despite there being no legitimate reason to.

  16. #135
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Mother of Aurora shooting victim plans suit against theater

    AURORA - The mother of Aurora shooting victim Rebecca Wingo told 9NEWS Monday that she has decided to file a lawsuit against Cinemark Cinema, the theater where the deadly shooting took place.
    Rebecca's mother Shirley Wygal
    claims the theater did not have proper security the night of the shooting
    .
    Mother of Aurora shooting victim plans suit against theater | 9news.com


    this will be the second one

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