Shipping Question

Shipping Question

This is a discussion on Shipping Question within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm not sure if this is the correct place. But, I will be shipping my Sig 220 back to Sig for some work and I ...

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Thread: Shipping Question

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array '75scout's Avatar
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    Shipping Question

    I'm not sure if this is the correct place. But, I will be shipping my Sig 220 back to Sig for some work and I figured I had to ship it from an FFL but my gunstore said they wouldn't ship it and I could just go to the USPS office and mail it myself.

    I'm sure it is, but is this correct? I thought you could only ship longarms without an FFL.


  2. #2
    Member Array levi333's Avatar
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    From what ive read at the ATF, you can not ship your handgun with the USPS, only FFL's can.
    YOU have to use Fedex overnight, and the recipient has to be an FFL.

    I'm sure others will correct me if this is wrong.

    This is where i got that info i believe:
    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array '75scout's Avatar
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    Called Sig and they said to box it at home and label it "machine parts". But they have to ship it back to an FFL.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Whoa, hold on.

    1. You cannot ship via USPS if you are not an FFL.

    2. You CAN ship via UPS and FedEx yourself to an FFL. You do not have to go through an FFL to ship to an FFL.

    3. Sig will ship the gun straight back to you. You will not have to have it shipped to an FFL from them.

    Now, this is Federal law. Your state laws may vary.

    Wayne

    Hey, Levi, what part of the valley are you in? I'm in the valley of death.... errr.... Eugene lol.

  5. #5
    Member Array levi333's Avatar
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    I'm in Lebanon, about 45min North of you.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array sheepdog's Avatar
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    I wonder why Sig is so far off base on shipping the gun back to an FFL? Some company policy? New employee? Three different gunsmiths and two gun companies sure as heck have no problems sending guns back to ME as in to my door. I think there is a lot of misinformation floating on this, what Wayne said above comports with my understanding of federal law. BUT, that being said, I just had a disagreement with an FFL about shipping a rifle. I refer to the ATF FAQ frequently, so I told him what the ATF web site said. He believed it was wrong or out of date. I called an ATF license inspector who looked it up, quoted it, gave me the page number in the book, supplied his name, also cited the web site, and told me I was correct. I've also had a brief disagreement with two clerks-one at UPS, one at Fedex.
    Last edited by sheepdog; September 21st, 2006 at 06:45 PM. Reason: clarity
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    From GunBroker.com

    Firearms Shipping Guide
    (last updated on 8/13/2005 456 AM)

    Firearms Shipping Guide



    Overview
    This page provides information about Federal Laws, step that must be followed, and notes on using specific shippers when shipping firearms. This page is oriented toward the seller of an item. If you need information about how to buy a firearm through GunBroker.com, please refer to our Buyer's Tutorial.
    This page contains information oriented toward persons shipping firearms within the United States. For sellers located outside the United States, please see our Import / Export Page.


    Shipping Legalities
    Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped only to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL). The recipient must be have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale).
    Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
    (B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
    A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

    B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service? [Back]
    A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

    'Antique' firearms need not be shipped to a licensed dealer. These can be shipped directly to the buyer. An antique firearm is a firearm built in or before 1898, or a replica thereof. The exact ATF definition of an antique firearm is:
    Antique firearm. (a) Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and (b) any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (a) of this definition if such replica (1) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (2) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

    Knives, air guns, accessories, and most gun parts need not be shipped to an FFL holder. We say most gun parts because each firearm contains at least one part that the ATF considers a firearm. This part is typically the part that contains the serial number. This part must be treated as a complete firearm when shipping the item.

    Ammunition must be clearly identified as 'Small Arms Ammunition' on the outside of the box. Some shippers treat ammunition as dangerous or hazardous materials.

    The section of the US Code that governs modern firearms is called Commerce in Firearms and Ammunition (CFA). This code is available online at: www.atf.treas.gov/regulations/27cfr178.html

    When in doubt, we suggest arranging for transfer through a licensed dealer. Violation of the CFA is a felony and penalties for violation of it are severe.


    Federal and State Law Resources
    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) has a very comprehensive site containing information about the various Federal and state laws regulating firearms. Please refer to the ATF information for legal questions regarding firearms.
    ATF Home page: http://www.atf.treas.gov
    ATF Compilation of the various state laws: http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/st.../22edition.htm
    ATF Firearms Division Main Page: http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/index.htm

    Shipment by Unlicensed Persons
    Any shipper who does not have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be an 'unlicensed person'. This section contains information on how unlicensed persons can ship firearms. If you have an FFL, please skip to the next section for shipping suggestions.
    The most important thing to know is that you must only ship guns to a licensed dealer. If the buyer is not a licensed dealer, he will have to make arrangements with a dealer in his state to ship the item to.

    Before you ship a gun, the buyer must fax or mail you a copy of the dealer's signed FFL license. You can only ship the gun to the address on the license. You must inform the carrier that the package contains a firearm. Of course, the firearm cannot be shipped loaded; ammunition may not be shipped in the same box. You should take the copy of the signed FFL with you when you take the item to be shipped in case the shipper wishes to see it.

    Notes on specific shippers:

    US Mail: An unlicensed person can ship a rifle or shotgun by US Mail. Unlicensed persons cannot ship a handgun by US Mail. Postal regulations allow the Post Office to open your package for inspection. Ammunition cannot be shipped by US Mail. You can search the US Post Offer Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

    FedEx: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as dangerous goods.

    UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition. UPS does not allow shipment of firearms FROM an unlicensed person (even to an FFL), unless the stated reason for the firearm shipment is for repair or modifications.

    Most other shippers will no longer accept firearm shipments. Airborne and Roadway have specifically prohibited firearm shipments.


    Shipment by Licensed Persons
    Any shipper who has a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be a 'licensed person'. This section contains information on how licensed persons can ship firearms. If you do not have an FFL, please see the previous section of this page for for shipping instructions.
    Since licensed persons are responsible for knowing the law, we are going to assume that you already understand the CGA and know the applicable Federal, state, and local laws.

    Notes on specific shippers:

    US Mail: Licensed persons can ship a rifle, shotguns, or handguns by US Mail. In fact, we suggest that you use the USPS as it is now the most cost-effective way to ship a handgun. To ship a rifle or shotgun, you need only inform the Post Office that the package contains a firearm. A licensed manufacturer, dealer, or importer can ship a handgun</> via the US Post Office if the licensed dealer fills out a US Post Office Form PS 1508 and files it with the local Post Office branch where the handgun is to be shipped. You can search the US Post Offer Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

    FedEx: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as dangerous goods. NSSF members can sign up for a discount of up to 26% on FedEx shipments.

    UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition.

    Most other shippers will no longer accept firearm shipments. Airborne and Roadway have specifically prohibited firearm shipments.


    Notes on USPS Firearm Regulations
    We recommend that you read the Post Office regulations on Other Restricted or Nonmailable Matter before shipping a firearm through the US Mail.
    The following info comes from the USPS Regulation DMM Issue 54, January 10, 1999, section C-024

    Page C-39, section 3.0, Rifles and Shotguns: "Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 1.1e and 1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act or 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 1.1e."

    Page C-39, section 6.0, PROHIBITED PARCEL MARKING: "For any parcel containing a firearm or a ballistic or switchblade knife, any marking that indicates the contents is not permitted on the outside wrapper or container."

    The following pertains only to licensed dealers shipping handguns:

    Page C-37, section 1.3, Authorized Persons: "Subject to 1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government......."

    Page C-38, section 1.5, Manufacturers and Dealers: "Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts."

    Page C-38, section 1.6, Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers: "A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major components thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms."
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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    Also, do not label your pkg "machined part's" Sig is crazy for telling you this. You "MUST" claim it as a firearm and ship it through UPS or FED-EX overnight to be legal.

    ETA - Your gun store and Sig are screwed up!


    Ti.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Array '75scout's Avatar
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    Wow thanks so much. I'm going to call the UPS store and Sig tomorrow. Hopefully, I can get it all cleared up.

  10. #10
    Member Array AceRider's Avatar
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    FYI, I just tried to ship via UPS and the small strip center store I went to wouldn't accept it. They claimed that I needed to go to a UPS drop center (bigger facility) to ship firearms of any kind.

    I've shipped with FedEx twice and they didn't give two hoots when I told them I was shipping a firearm. They asked who it was going to and were fine when I told them the recipient was the manufacturer. No issues.

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    You can ship thru UPS or FedEx, but it MUST be from the actual UPS/FedEx depot and not a storefront.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    There is an official form that your FFL can give you that identifies you as his agent, and will allow you to ship via USPS. As LenS posted above UPS and FedEx will only allow you to ship from their cusomer service counter, not from a UPS Store.
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  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    I have received "some indication" from UPS that if you setup an online account (no cost) you could ship a gun by creating your own label, paying online and handing off to any UPS driver.

    NOT SURE and haven't tested this out, but it might be worth checking as there are Brown Trucks everywhere and same for FedEx. Likewise, if this works, there are UPS and FedEx drop boxes everywhere and they post the pickup time on them (usually 5-6PM) and you could stake one out and meet up with a UPS/FedEx driver to hand them the package.

    I have created both UPS and FedEx online accounts, although I don't ship more than a handful of packages (and almost never guns) per year.

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