Percentage murders in U.S. by Firearms in 2010

This is a discussion on Percentage murders in U.S. by Firearms in 2010 within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by chefjon They always come up with the "Well regulated militia" and I counter with the fact that every able-bodied male in America ...

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Thread: Percentage murders in U.S. by Firearms in 2010

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefjon View Post
    They always come up with the "Well regulated militia" and I counter with the fact that every able-bodied male in America at the time WAS considered the militia, and that more likely what that meant was that we should have mandatory service like Israel or Sweden.
    That is still the case today. Selective Service tracks the unorganized militia.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    @Armyman
    I was talking about you redirecting a question. That is why folks stopped playing with you in the other thread.

  4. #18
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    @Armyman
    I was talking about you redirecting a question. That is why folks stopped playing with you in the other thread.
    Well at least you know what you're talking about.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    @Armyman
    I was talking about you redirecting a question. That is why folks stopped playing with you in the other thread.
    People are still replying to him in the last three threads he posted in.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    People are still replying to him in the last three threads he posted in.
    I think he can handle himself, but thank you for the comment :)

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    My argument to that stat is : Any individual's odds of dying from various external causes are affected by the activities in which they participate, where they live and drive, what kind of work they do, and other factors. So, 1 in 314 for living in Flint, Michigan can be 1 in 20,000 for someone living in northern NH.

    When pro gun folks use stats I listen to them just as much as when the Brady Bunch uses stats--meaningless. We have a right to bear arms regardless of stats-period
    I understand that. Yes it's a right... yes a right needs no defense... or wait... does it?

    Why yes, we do have to defend our rights... You see, the Anti Federalists insisted that we DEFEND our rights by including them in the Bill of Rights... even though those rights were supposed to be innate/natural/God-given, they insisted that they be included in the bill of rights in order that they be specifically enumerated as rights that could not be removed from the people.

    AND THERE WAS DISCUSSION OF THOSE RIGHTS AND DISCOURSE AND HANDBILLS AND OTHER PUBLISHED MATERIALS...

    And there is no harm in engaging in discourse about the right.. and about the nuances of that right...

    To simply "Stonewall" and refuse to listen, accomplishes nothing. You are correct... we have a right to bear arms, period. regardless of stats... but if the antis are using stats to bolster their "feelings" why not give them stats that prove the facts...
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
    "You are elected to service, not power.
    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
    Me, 9/11/13

  8. #22
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    People are still replying to him in the last three threads he posted in.
    Well if things have cooled down then it's certainly worth a look.

  9. #23
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    Welcome aboard. You figure sounds about right.

    I've been engaged in similar research and have found, roughly, there's about 12,000 homicides by firearms every years in the US. About 17,000 suicides. And a total of about 90,000 shootings, including homicides and suicides. And that's going to vary from year to year.

    To say it's a fraction of a percent might be overstating the risk of being killed in a homicide. And the numbers do not take into account mitigating factors like demographics (who and where). Your risk of being a homicide victim go way up if you're a druggie or a drunk, imo.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array joker1's Avatar
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    Place a loaded, chambered gun on a table and have your friend watch it. After about 30 seconds and he says "nothing's happening!?!" Smugly reply "Right"! Pick up the gun and keep your finger off of the trigger and pointed in a safe direction, have your friend again watch the gun. If he's dense he'll watch it again and reply like before, unless you've done something stupid. Then go to the mall and people watch for a while. Ask him to predict which store that punk with the skinny jeans and multi-colored hair will go into next. Do this with several individuals and see how often he can accurately predict the future when people are involved. Now give the gun to someone in the mall (just kidding, don't do this). While you are people watching turn your attention to the food court. You will likely find somebody that simply judging by the fit of their clothes and the strain on the seating should not be chowing down on their 4th plate of random asian buffet and hot fudge sundaes. Ask your buddy if we should take away their fork and spoon, they obviously can't be trusted with those 2 items. Interesting bit of trivia here, both of those items can easily be weaponized with a minimum application of brain cells.

    By now you may have established that guns are objects and people are people. When you combine the gun and people things may or may not happen, but only with the aid of people can guns do what they do. You could whip out the ol' "Guns don't kill people" line. But I'm sure he's heard it. Guns no matter how black they are, how many heat seaking bullets they hold, how army looking they are, do not operate by themselves. It takes deliberate action from a human being to light that fire.

    Hope this helps. Video it if you can.
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    With great power comes great responsibility.-Stan Lee

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    I understand that. Yes it's a right... yes a right needs no defense... or wait... does it?

    Why yes, we do have to defend our rights... You see, the Anti Federalists insisted that we DEFEND our rights by including them in the Bill of Rights... even though those rights were supposed to be innate/natural/God-given, they insisted that they be included in the bill of rights in order that they be specifically enumerated as rights that could not be removed from the people.

    AND THERE WAS DISCUSSION OF THOSE RIGHTS AND DISCOURSE AND HANDBILLS AND OTHER PUBLISHED MATERIALS...

    And there is no harm in engaging in discourse about the right.. and about the nuances of that right...

    To simply "Stonewall" and refuse to listen, accomplishes nothing. You are correct... we have a right to bear arms, period. regardless of stats... but if the antis are using stats to bolster their "feelings" why not give them stats that prove the facts...
    Unfortunately some of the organizations and people that speak for gun owners do not give the 100 percent unbiased truth either. I know it is how the game is played. But don't kid yourself with some of the pro-gun stats from dubious sources. When we Alex Jones spouting his conspiracies every week we, as gun owners, get lumped into a certain category. Just like some pro gun folks lump every anti or one who wants some restrictions in with the Brady Bunch.

  12. #26
    Member Array Rmart30's Avatar
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    Here is a link to crime stats from 2010 back.......United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2010

    I will also add to it halfway down the page on this link is a chart showing how many drunk driving fatalities in the U.S. per yr.
    They out number firearms fatalities in almost every year.... Drunk driving statistics

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    There are lots of people out there fighting to restrict gun rights. I say using facts to counter some of their arguments is a productive tool. I fully agree with the "4 words" argument, probably to a fault insofar as I don't even see the need for any other gun laws.

    But it is useful to have other arguments. Look at modern politics. Who is really taking the U.S. Constitution seriously?

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    I understand your problem, and may I inform you that you need something different than statistics. This guy's opinion isn't based on data to begin with, so neither will it be swayed by data.

    Please read and consider the following link: Hoplophobia Analysis

    About half way down the page it offers proven ways to directly address an anti-gun person. For example:
    The educated individual will look right thru this. Believe it or not most of your liberal elite are very smart and well educated people. If your going to play a game, at least bring it up to there level....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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